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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 15 April 2025
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Displaying 912 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Scottish Fire and Rescue Service

Meeting date: 4 September 2024

Katy Clark

I understand that, but is that provision now in place or will that—

Criminal Justice Committee

Scottish Fire and Rescue Service

Meeting date: 4 September 2024

Katy Clark

I appreciate that.

Criminal Justice Committee

Scottish Fire and Rescue Service

Meeting date: 4 September 2024

Katy Clark

I appreciate that we do not have much time, convener. I suspect that other members will pick up some of those issues. However, it would be helpful if you could address the issue of the provision of guidance to firefighters.

Criminal Justice Committee

Scottish Fire and Rescue Service

Meeting date: 4 September 2024

Katy Clark

Thank you. There are a lot of what have been called “behaviours”. Very clear guidance needs to be given to firefighters on the best possible practice to minimise risk. Perhaps Stuart Stevens could outline what work has been done on that.

Criminal Justice Committee

Scottish Fire and Rescue Service

Meeting date: 4 September 2024

Katy Clark

The evidence we have heard is extremely alarming. Unfortunately, I think that most members are already aware of many of these issues, largely due to the lobbying that has been done, particularly by the FBU, which has done a huge amount of work in this Parliament on the issue. It has, in particular, brought to parliamentarians’ attention the risks of the toxins that firefighters are exposed to.

It seems absolutely clear to me that the fire service is in breach of its duty of care to firefighters and, from the evidence that we have heard today, it is the exception that adequate decontamination facilities are available. The evidence about Inverness is interesting, because I think that most committee members will have been to fire stations and seen the poor decontamination facilities that are available. It is also alarming that, when you speak to firefighters, they will tell you that they look to the FBU guidance and that we still are not in the position of having proper and thorough guidance available. As a result, simple steps might not be taken by every firefighter.

In other situations, we would be closing down such facilities if they did not meet the minimum requirement. It cannot be acceptable to have perhaps dozens of firefighters relying on one shower after an incident. Have you given any thought to emergency responses that can be made to bring in other resources, perhaps not in fire stations that are built, to ensure that, when there are incidents, firefighters have adequate decontamination and that they are not having to rely on baby wipes? How can we as a society respond to ensure that, until we get adequate facilities, firefighters are still able to decontaminate?

I will ask Colin Brown to come in first.

11:00  

Criminal Justice Committee

Scottish Fire and Rescue Service

Meeting date: 4 September 2024

Katy Clark

Do the other witnesses want to respond?

Criminal Justice Committee

Scottish Fire and Rescue Service

Meeting date: 4 September 2024

Katy Clark

I want to pick up on the additional £3.2 million for kit that you referred to. Over the past year, firefighters at a number of stations have told me that, basically, they have to put contaminated kit on again. Will that additional resource ensure that firefighters have access to clean kit, which I understand has, historically, not been the case? Is that correct? Is it the case that they will have access to clean kit? Is that in place now?

Criminal Justice Committee

Scottish Fire and Rescue Service

Meeting date: 4 September 2024

Katy Clark

So you will be able to give us an update on that in due course.

Criminal Justice Committee

Scottish Fire and Rescue Service

Meeting date: 4 September 2024

Katy Clark

What I am trying to find out is whether we will now have safe systems of work, at least in relation to that aspect, or whether there is more to be done. You now have the resource. The policy is that people should be able to access clean kit immediately if their own kit has been contaminated, but whether you have been able to implement that policy fully is a slightly different issue. Firefighters tell me that they might attend a number of incidents in a week, so their kit might be contaminated a number of times. They might go to another incident with kit that has already been contaminated. As I understand it, they are having to put dirty equipment back on.

Criminal Justice Committee

Scottish Fire and Rescue Service

Meeting date: 4 September 2024

Katy Clark

Convener, I was not going to ask another question, but I would just point out that industrial injuries are obviously now a devolved matter. Perhaps the committee could get more information on some of the issues that have been raised in that respect.