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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 4 July 2025
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Displaying 977 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Criminal Justice Modernisation and Abusive Domestic Behaviour Reviews (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 February 2025

Katy Clark

I ask Marsha Scott to come in on that as well.

Criminal Justice Committee

Criminal Justice Modernisation and Abusive Domestic Behaviour Reviews (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 February 2025

Katy Clark

You have all made the case very strongly about the resource and financial pressures on the system, in local government and health and across the public sector. You have also made a powerful case in relation to duplication. It seems to me that the multilayered review system, as you describe it, exists in some cases—we perhaps need to deal with that—but there are other situations where that is not a feature. An example is the situation, as we understand it, in relation to Fiona Drouet’s daughter. I am involved in a case where, as far as I am aware, there is no review process. There are cases where there are no drugs issues, or no children are involved, or there is no social work involvement already. Is it fair to say that we need to look at those scenarios in different ways?

The committee’s role is to scrutinise what is in the bill. I appreciate and completely understand that you are not draftspeople, but are you saying that, in terms of the policy that we are trying to achieve, we perhaps need to ensure that those different scenarios are dealt with in different ways, in the bill and in the regulations that will come thereafter? Are you saying that you accept that there is a gap that needs to be addressed, but that there are other situations where there are already a range of review processes?

Criminal Justice Committee

Criminal Justice Modernisation and Abusive Domestic Behaviour Reviews (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 February 2025

Katy Clark

Is it your understanding from all the meetings that you have been to that the policy intention is to have a review in every case where there is a death that meets the definition?

Criminal Justice Committee

Criminal Justice Modernisation and Abusive Domestic Behaviour Reviews (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 February 2025

Katy Clark

I do not know a lot of the detail of how the process operates in Wales or the role of families there. Have you been able to look at that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Criminal Justice Modernisation and Abusive Domestic Behaviour Reviews (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 February 2025

Katy Clark

I presume that your view is that the report and other information should be shared with families and that there should be disclosure with families. Is that fair?

Criminal Justice Committee

Criminal Justice Modernisation and Abusive Domestic Behaviour Reviews (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 February 2025

Katy Clark

You think that the report should be redacted in some way to try to ensure that it is not possible to ascertain who it is about. Is that a fair summary?

Criminal Justice Committee

Criminal Justice Modernisation and Abusive Domestic Behaviour Reviews (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 January 2025

Katy Clark

Is it your understanding that, when the defence objects, it would normally be the case that evidence would be given in person, and that it would not be the default for evidence to be given virtually?

Criminal Justice Committee

Criminal Justice Modernisation and Abusive Domestic Behaviour Reviews (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 January 2025

Katy Clark

Yes, but we must look at what is in the bill and the black letter of the law. That is not clear in the bill, is it?

Criminal Justice Committee

Criminal Justice Modernisation and Abusive Domestic Behaviour Reviews (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 January 2025

Katy Clark

Thank you.

Criminal Justice Committee

Criminal Justice Modernisation and Abusive Domestic Behaviour Reviews (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 January 2025

Katy Clark

My questions, which are perhaps best directed at Laura Buchan or Emma Forbes, focus on the right to a fair trial and on ensuring that we prevent miscarriages of justice.

I believe that some of the early pilots required agreement from both sides for virtual attendance, but I do not believe that that is what is being proposed here. We know that a lot of professional evidence is disputed, and we know, too, that the courts have not always accepted police evidence. We really should have a system in which, for example, early pleas are encouraged and cases are fully prepared to enable that to happen. Moreover, if witnesses are expected to go through a trial to which there is a guilty outcome, the inconvenience to them of having to travel what are sometimes very considerable distances should be taken into account in sentencing. Do you see advantages in, say, police giving evidence in person to ensure that that evidence is tested? In what kinds of scenarios do you think that evidence should be given in person?