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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 22 April 2025
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Displaying 1669 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 April 2024

Russell Findlay

They have the resources and the arguments and they know the system.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 April 2024

Russell Findlay

Making a complaint as a member of the public about something that has happened is one thing, but you were a grieving mother complaining about something that is absolutely unimaginable to most people. There was no real compassion, except at the outset when the officers who came to you were respectful and helpful. I think the phrase that you used for what happened after that was, “a hellish merry-go-round,” which seems to sum it up.

11:15  

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 April 2024

Russell Findlay

We do not expect you to know what the bill does. We do not yet know that, because we have not looked at it properly. However, I assume that you would agree, in general terms, that we need to pass a law that changes the police complaints process. That is absolutely necessary.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 April 2024

Russell Findlay

The same goes for what its disclosure might be to the Crown Office, although, in this case, it did not choose to disclose. My question is about the legislation. Could there be a mechanism whereby if there was full transparency around those submissions to the PIRC and to the Crown from Police Scotland, that would build public confidence that at least the complainer knew that the powers that be—the PIRC and the Crown—were being told something that was reflective of what they were saying?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 April 2024

Russell Findlay

One proposal in the bill is that the PIRC should have access to Police Scotland’s systems, which seems perfectly sensible. That would open things up if there are attempts to withhold certain information, but that is opposed by the Scottish Police Federation.

I will make a quick point. You described going to the PIRC, which said that it could not look at a particular set of circumstances because they were of a criminal nature, but when you went to Police Scotland with the same information, it deemed them not to be criminal, and if you did not accept that, it would not look at them.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 April 2024

Russell Findlay

I have previously spoken with Maggie about what she is attempting to deal with.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 April 2024

Russell Findlay

Hi, Maggie. Thank you for joining us.

You described your ordeal with the police complaints process as like being on a hamster wheel, and a previous witness described it as “a hellish merry-go-round”. I suppose that what both descriptions have in common is the idea of an endless circularity to the process, and it seems to have been designed that way.

Another common feature of what we have heard is the way in which, at the outset, the police are able to be selective about how they categorise complaints. That categorisation sets the tone for everything from that point, in terms of how something is dealt with internally and how the police might represent the issue to the PIRC or, indeed, the Crown. Do you think that it could be helpful for the bill to include much greater transparency around that crucial early moment? It might include that already, but I am not entirely sure that it does, to be honest.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 April 2024

Russell Findlay

Some people who have not experienced what you, Stephanie Bonner, Bill Johnstone and others have experienced might find what we are talking about quite extraordinary. Police Scotland is very effective at telling the public that all is largely well, and it is absolutely the case that the vast majority of police officers do an incredibly difficult job with the greatest of integrity. Can you explain why you think that Police Scotland, or any police force or, indeed, big organisation, might seek to waste people’s time and public money on a process such as the one that you have described when, in fact, doing the right thing would be more efficient and better for their reputation in the long term?

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 27 March 2024

Russell Findlay

I have a quick question that relates not specifically to the SSI, but to something that the minister said in her evidence. She said that she believes in deed, not breed; however, the legislation is breed specific. How two opposing opinions can be held at the same time is causing people some confusion. What is your position, minister?

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 27 March 2024

Russell Findlay

But what is the problem, if those dogs are not inherently a problem? What problem would there be if they came to Scotland, given that this is not an issue of breed?