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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 21 April 2025
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Displaying 1669 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Russell Findlay

Okay—thank you.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Russell Findlay

One of the key recommendations that Dame Elish made was for the PIRC to be made answerable and accountable to the Parliament. That is not in the bill. Will you explain your thinking as to why that recommendation has been disregarded?

10:30  

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Russell Findlay

I have a general question, now. We heard evidence about good police officers’ careers being destroyed and innocent members of the public being treated like criminals. Often, the original failing is not the most important issue; it is the subsequent process that people experience. They often experience cover-ups, delays, disregard and weaponisation of the process.

During the past few weeks, we have also heard quite a bit from senior policing figures that they have been doing a great deal of work to change the culture. Are you confident that the bill will protect good officers and the public, or is there a fairly deeply ingrained culture in policing that the bill alone cannot fix?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Russell Findlay

His Majesty’s chief inspector of constabulary told the committee that he would like the bill to include a provision whereby a chief constable would be able to sack officers, following due process. He said that he has been in discussion with the bill team for more than a year. Will that be included in the bill?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Russell Findlay

If I understand you correctly, you are sympathetic to the PIRC’s view that it should not be designated as a prescribed organisation for the purpose of whistleblowers. It wants to be a gateway rather than a particular recipient of whistleblower complaints.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Russell Findlay

Okay. Thank you.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Russell Findlay

I go back to the issue with the duty of candour. The bill would require all officers to adhere to that duty, but it would also apply to the 6,000 or so civilian staff. Unison has explicitly said that, if that were the case, it would immediately seek a pay rise for every single one of its members involved. I wonder, therefore, whether you are going to pursue that requirement in respect of non-police officer staff, and how much it will potentially cost. Has that cost been factored into the £5.8 million?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Russell Findlay

So there is no plan to change direction—the duty of candour in the bill will apply to civilian staff, and that will not be changed.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Russell Findlay

So Unison, in taking its position, has perhaps misunderstood the legislation.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Russell Findlay

Is there a technical reason why you cannot do it, or are you opposed to the suggestion that the PIRC should be answerable and accountable to the Parliament?