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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 21 April 2025
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Displaying 1669 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Emergency Release of Prisoners and Other Key Challenges in Scotland’s Prisons

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Russell Findlay

I see. I had misunderstood, so I am glad that I clarified that. So, for 35 per cent of those who are off at a typical moment, their absence relates to mental health.

Criminal Justice Committee

Emergency Release of Prisoners and Other Key Challenges in Scotland’s Prisons

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Russell Findlay

Thank you.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Russell Findlay

I have a couple of questions that the committee might be interested in asking. I have been assisting one of the female complainers in this long drawn-out saga, and there are several questions and concerns, so I think that it is useful to give a quick synopsis of the matter.

This is the first fitness for judicial office tribunal in Scotland, having been legislated for in 2014. In March 2021, the tribunal found the individual’s behaviour to be inappropriate. However, the findings of that tribunal were quashed on appeal, because the tribunal did not take some other evidence into account. A second tribunal was held, which ruled that he had committed serious improper conduct, which is a matter of public record.

All of that took five years to conclude. In that time, the individual was suspended on full pay, which amounts to not far off £1 million in pay. As far as I understand it, the public might also be required to pay the legal costs of the individual. I have asked the Scottish Government how much that will be, and I am waiting for an answer.

The first question is whether it is proper in such circumstances for the public purse to meet the cost of a judicial office-holder’s legal fees.

The second question is about the time that it took for what appears to be a relatively straightforward process that we might imagine happening in any other walk of life. Why did that take the best part of five years? On the basis of it being a brand-new tribunal and a brand-new process, is the Scottish Government concerned that the case will be typical, or is it confident that we will not see a repeat of a five-year process?

12:00  

The third point is a possible question, but it is more a general point. The female complainer in that particular case was led to believe that she did not have an automatic right to know the outcome of the proceedings and, indeed, that it would not automatically be a matter of public record. That is at the discretion or behest of the First Minister of the day.

In March, I wrote to the First Minister at the time, Humza Yousaf, to suggest that the issue might be looked at. I would not necessarily call it a loophole, but the issue is whether there should be some form of appraisal of whether, in such a tribunal—as rare as they might be—the default position should be that complainers are informed proactively and unconditionally, and that the wider public are also informed.

Those are my thoughts.

Criminal Justice Committee

Emergency Release of Prisoners and Other Key Challenges in Scotland’s Prisons

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Russell Findlay

So crime victims will see in the news that there will be a mass release of 550 prisoners who are serving sentences of under four years. Those prisoners will include people who have committed sexual crimes and acts of violence.

Criminal Justice Committee

Emergency Release of Prisoners and Other Key Challenges in Scotland’s Prisons

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Russell Findlay

Right. They might have committed sexual crimes in the past, but the index offence would not include sex offences.

Criminal Justice Committee

Emergency Release of Prisoners and Other Key Challenges in Scotland’s Prisons

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Russell Findlay

They might come to you, but they cannot possibly know whether their offender is being considered for release until they engage with you and you go through the process with them.

Criminal Justice Committee

Emergency Release of Prisoners and Other Key Challenges in Scotland’s Prisons

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Russell Findlay

According to Lynsey Smith, a list of the offenders who could potentially be released has been circulated to Police Scotland and the Risk Management Authority. Could the Government be more proactive and share that information with your organisations?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Russell Findlay

Does it not concern you slightly that Unison is saying that, if the duty of candour applies in that respect, all those civilian staff—6,000 of them—will be a regulated workforce in the same way as police officers are, and they will expect a pay rise?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Russell Findlay

We have a strange situation in which the bill attempts to give the PIRC new powers, but the PIRC has told us that it is not able to have some powers for financial reasons, or that it does not want other powers. In respect of section 5 of the bill it said that “further detail is critical” and it strenuously opposes being given one particular function, which is the holding of senior officer gross misconduct cases. It says that it does not have the skills or resources to hold such cases, that there would be a lack of oversight of the PIRC, and even that such cases would impact on the PIRC’s ability to operate. Have you listened to those concerns and are you doing anything to address them in the legislation?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Russell Findlay

But does it not worry you to hear what Unison has said?