Seòmar agus comataidhean

That concludes the public part of the meeting and we now move into private session.

Hello. Welcome to the 16th meeting in 2022 of the Criminal Justice Committee. Audrey Nicoll, our convener, joins us remotely. Jamie Greene is running slightly late and will be with us soon.

Our first item of business is a round-table evidence session on policing and mental health. I refer members to papers 1 and 2. It is my pleasure to welcome: Dr Inga Heyman of Edinburgh Napier University; Alan Staff of Apex Scotland; Martyn Evans of the Scottish Police Authority; David Hamilton of the Scottish Police Federation; and Assistant Chief Constable John Hawkins and Superintendent Mairi MacInnes of Police Scotland.

Thank you all for providing the committee with written evidence, which we have had a chance to look at. If you would like to answer a question, try to catch my eye or that of the clerk, Stephen Imrie, and we will do our best to bring you into the discussion. We have about 80 minutes in total for this session.

I will kick off—that is one of the benefits of convening, I suppose—with a question for ACC Hawkins. How many Police Scotland officers have lost their lives to suicide in recent years?

I failed to say at the outset of the meeting that witnesses and members should try to keep questions and answers as brief as possible. We have a lot to get through.

I call Pauline McNeill.

Thank you very much. The next question comes from Fulton MacGregor.

Superintendent MacInnes, you deal with custody cases and manage officers every day. What impact does dealing with patients have on officers losing hours?

—or if they are a perpetrator.

I thank both witnesses for coming. How might the Scottish Government’s proposed reform of the Gender Recognition Act 2004 play against or impact on what you are proposing?

If an individual says, “I am a female,” because the new gender recognition legislation allows them to do so, if they are a complainer, that fundamentally alters how the misogyny law comes into play—

I completely understand that perspective. However, if the reforms to the 2004 act do what they say they might do, does that not cause a problem? In Holyrood magazine, you said:

“that’s for other people to fight over”.

Like it or not, there is going to be that fight, which could risk undermining what you propose.

I will be very quick.

When speaking to women who have been the victims of sexual violence, domestic violence, stalking or other crimes of that nature, we hear that they enter a criminal justice system that can almost revictimise them. That is a common theme. There is also the sense that it can be a male-dominated world and quite an intimidating environment.

Jamie Greene has already asked about the delivery of the law, but what can be done about the culture, within the courts, the prosecution service and even the police, that women experience? How can work be done on that? I know that that is perhaps not within your remit, because you are looking at legislation. I also know the direction of travel and that there have been great improvements. Nonetheless, will you give us your thoughts on that?