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Thank you.

My question is for Dr Williams. I am sorry if I seem to be picking on you. I note that, in its submission, the RCGP talks about the interface between primary and secondary care being where half of all errors and problems occur. You touched on that in response to my opening question to you.

Perhaps I can highlight as an example something that happened when I was in general practice last week. A patient came to me, telling me all the things that the hospital had said and done to them, but I did not get a discharge letter telling me any of that. As a result, I knew less than the patient did about their care. Can you give us any more examples of problems with the interface between primary and secondary care? What, exactly, do you feel a patient safety commissioner could do in that area?

I just want to make it clear that I would like to take evidence from Dr Baird, but as part of that wider work.

Thank you for your answers. We would love to see that information, Simon.

I return to what Rosemary Agnew said. I know that I am veering outside of the resource theme, but this is important. If we set up an organisation that had the scope to expand, what would our measure of success be that would indicate that it needed to expand?

I asked this question of the patient witness panel, and I am keen to ask you the same and also to bring in the threads of what has been said already. Dr Lamont talked about the fact that the commissioner will need to hear from individual patients. Simon Watson spoke about capturing patterns and about how, ideally, individuals will speak to the commissioner. The policy memorandum estimates that the commissioner will have four staff. Clearly, a lot more individuals will come forward, and, if patients are going to go directly to the commissioner, the numbers could be in the thousands. Do we need to significantly increase the number of staff and, if so, do we need to significantly increase the budget?

I want to pick up on something that Rosemary Agnew said in her opening statement about patient whistleblowing. I am not talking about the extreme situations that Simon Watson mentioned. Before the pandemic, my experience in hospital was of long waits or of patients who were in wards that were particularly hot in the summer and they were feeling overwhelmed. They would tell me, as their doctor, and they would tell our nursing staff, but they would not put in a complaint because they were too worried about the staff. They saw that they were working as hard as they could and that it was not their fault. I found that, despite our raising those points, it did not make a difference until patients complained. Therefore, we were encouraging patients to complain.

Do you feel that having a patient safety commissioner would be a good way for stories like that to be picked up? We have heard about the golden thread. Alternatively, is the local complaints procedure the best place for such issues to be dealt with?

Before I ask my question, I will touch on something that Bill Wright said. With regard to the culture of defensiveness, what happened in the past is very different to what goes on now. Doctors certainly do whistleblow, and we have seen that on a number of occasions. As a doctor, when I make a mistake, one of the first things that I do is apologise. We all make mistakes, because that is the reality, so I hope that that comment was about the higher board level rather than about individuals.

NHS Scotland—and the NHS in general—is fantastic, but I am realistic enough to know that improvements can be made. From what I have been hearing, it seems that everyone is keen for the commissioner to take and listen to evidence from individuals, but we need to be clear that, potentially, thousands of people will be writing to or seeing the commissioner. My question is based around the fact that the current budget is for four members of staff plus the commissioner. Do you want to see a significant increase in the budget and, thus, the number of staff who work for the commissioner? That question goes first to Bill Wright.

Good morning, and thank you for joining us. The committee held a private session in which we asked questions of the bill team. I have a question on the English model that I would like to be answered. Baroness Cumberlege, you just said that there are powers in legislation. What powers are available if bodies do not respond to Henrietta Hughes in the timely fashion in which she would like them to respond?

Are there any lessons that you have learned from what has gone on, and is there anything that we can add to the bill or do to improve it, so that we do not have to learn the same lessons as you have learned?

Do you feel that it would be useful to have powers such as the ability to fine a public sector organisation?