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But could I get a commitment from you to write to us with that detail?

Thank you. My last question is to Dave Moxham. You talked about transparency when it comes to the co-design process. My worry—which Cara Stevenson mentioned earlier—is about it being a box-ticking exercise and there not being an effective voice, not just for workers, but for anyone who turns up to speak at these sessions. I have read the information that the Government put out—on 27 September, I think. It is all very sanitised and neatly packaged. Do you think that it is important to have the raw data out there on what everyone has said, so that we can all see it?

Dr Elder-Woodward, with regard to the panel, you said that you felt as if you were being “used” and that people had no voice. Is that a criticism of co-design or of the whole process?

Unfortunately, we do not have time to go into all of the detail on why you do not think that the bill will deliver for the people of Scotland, so, could you might write to us with that detail?

I can, and I hope that you get the meeting with COSLA that you would like.

I turn briefly to Donald Macaskill. All the witnesses on the panel have talked about being left out with regard to the sort of secret agreement between the Scottish Government and COSLA. Eddie Follan of COSLA said that there is a very short timetable. Cara Stevenson on the previous panel said that things are moving very slowly, which is perhaps because of the level of engagement. Am I right in thinking that you do not feel engaged? Do you feel that the timetable is arbitrary and that it has been moved once, so it can be moved again to allow you to have engagement?

I declare my interest as a practising NHS GP.

In the previous panel, Cara Stevenson of GMB Scotland raised concerns that the co-design process is merely “a box-ticking exercise”, and that

“the workforce does not have an effective voice.”

Dave Moxham was concerned about transparency.

Do you agree that that is the case for the independent sector? Perhaps Rachel Cackett can start.

Cara Stevenson, you said that things are going very slowly when it comes to the NCS, but last week Eddie Follan said that COSLA was dealing with a very short timescale. How do those two things match up?

I again turn to what Eddie Follan said last week. He said that primary legislation is important and that he wants things that he is working on to be in primary legislation. When it comes to guaranteeing workers’ rights and things that you think are important for your members, do they have to be in primary legislation?

I declare an interest as a practising national health service doctor.

I have a question for Dave Moxham. We are unionised—we have some unions. If we want to have the same working conditions and pay across our country—in other words, we do not want a social worker in Glasgow to be paid significantly less than one in the Highlands—do you expect, given how the bill is being run and the way in which the agreement with COSLA is going, that all workers at all levels will be pulled up to the highest hourly rate of pay in the country and pulled up on things such as pensions?

I turn to my final question. I have twice heard you say, “We are where we are”, but we are not, because we have already had the delay, so I fail to see why we could not have another delay in order to get things right. When it comes to the co-design process and trust, are you happy that there is enough transparency in that process? Are you happy that the things that are said will be reported and that there will be transparency in how they are amalgamated and brought into the general work that will go on afterwards?