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Matthew Sweeney, what are COSLA’s members’ views of the inequities and their impact?

I am not sure whether Andrew Bradshaw wanted to come in.

How are those barriers affecting your members currently?

I want to follow up on Professor Mannion’s point. My colleague George Adam said that we are sharing some personal experience; we are, and that is important.

In your submission, you lift the issue to the systemic. You say that

“systemic support for the schools, staff, communities and partner organisations that provide for outdoor learning”

would be needed. In the context of this part of the discussion, could you tell us a bit more about what that support might look like?

Good morning, and thank you for the information that you sent the committee ahead of today’s meeting. In the spirit of sharing, I will say that I also remember my school residential trip. As a disabled person, my experience was quite different. My school had to create a very different trip. You got to choose whether you would go to an outdoor centre and which of the activities you got involved in, none of which were really suitable for me as a wheelchair user. Therefore, the school created a separate option, and all the pupils from the mainstream school were also able to choose that option, which focused on drama and included an element of outdoor learning.

How well does residential learning, including outdoor learning, meet the needs of all pupils, including those with additional support needs? You have all said that the benefits are most keenly felt by more deprived socioeconomic groups, which is really useful information. How well could residential outdoor education meet the needs of all pupils?

Does anything in the bill need to be changed to address the concerns that we have heard about in evidence? The Child Poverty Action Group and the NASUWT have raised concerns about the starting points of pupils and of schools. Having the residential centres is crucial. I have been to some of them and they are really good. However, do we need to change anything in the bill to support young people with additional support needs to get over the line to go in the first place or to help schools to have the confidence to support them to do it?

Can I ask a supplementary, convener?

Do I have time for one more question?

On that vision for inclusive qualifications assessment, inspiring learning and valuing achievement, does the Government response give the witnesses any confidence that there could be improvement in each of those three parts? For example, does its response to the pathway and the exams—and whether it will retain them—give a sense that it will resolve any of the problems that we have heard about?

Peter Bain, you said that the curriculum was warped by the assessment process. Do you get any sense that what the cabinet secretary set out understands the scale of the challenge and will deliver on those parts of the vision?

I know that many local leaders and education leaders were brought into the delivery of the vision. Douglas Hutchison, what has been their reaction to the cabinet secretary’s response?