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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 13 July 2025
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Displaying 2015 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I have one final question. The convener read out the policy note that we have received today, which says:

“This is to ensure continuity of leadership from appointments made during the transitional period.”

Members and others will know about my concern in respect of leadership continuity, and the convener has reiterated that concern. How long is the transitional period, and when could we expect to have a fresh board in place?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Is it the Government’s view that the people who have recently been appointed will transition to the new board?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I get that. On the point about political goodwill, the cabinet secretary must be aware of concerns about the current board and the transfer of staff. Being asked to do this at this stage just feels a bit uncomfortable.

I take the point about delay, but I do not think that the committee can be blamed for the Government’s timescales on the bill.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge: Post-inquiry Scrutiny

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I appreciate that. Thank you.

Convener, do I have time for one more question?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge: Post-inquiry Scrutiny

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Pam Duncan-Glancy

One point that has been made is the need for PEF to be used for income maximisation. Some examples of how schools are using it across the country are really innovative, and I thank the schools for what they are doing, because it involves really good work.

The cabinet secretary mentioned staff. Does she accept that PEF is being used for staff because core budgets for local authorities—and, therefore, education—are not necessarily adequate for supporting the permanent recruitment of teachers?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge: Post-inquiry Scrutiny

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Pam Duncan-Glancy

When will the next phase be?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge: Post-inquiry Scrutiny

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I do not doubt that there is a lot of information that could and should be used. I make the point that the Hayward review made suggestions in that area, which have not necessarily been progressed by the Government.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge: Post-inquiry Scrutiny

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I appreciate that. I want to move on slightly to the matter of young people with additional support needs—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge: Post-inquiry Scrutiny

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Pam Duncan-Glancy

The cabinet secretary will be aware of the 20 percentage point gap between pupils with and without additional support needs meeting the expected curriculum for excellence level, and also the gap between those pupils who have additional support needs and those who do not going to a positive destination.

The cabinet secretary has spoken quite a bit about the role of local authorities. I heard her say earlier that she does not have much power in that space, whereas local authorities do. However, the Audit Scotland report on additional support for learning that came out recently says:

“Funding allocation methodologies for councils do not reflect the ASL legislation, the presumption of mainstreaming and the continued growth in recorded additional support needs.”

In the light of that report, what is your response to that observation? When will the outcomes for those young people improve?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge: Post-inquiry Scrutiny

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Pam Duncan-Glancy

On the point about using SIMD and more specific data, we had the same discussion last week in relation to widening access to university and college education. Can the cabinet secretary state briefly whether she supports a national data-gathering and collective agreement so that that level of data can be shared across colleges and universities? That would enable them to use more granular data.