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How might you put structures in place to sustain that level of interest and engagement through the adult years?

I just want to follow up on the audit, because I think that getting it right is critical for our understanding of the picture. Will it be a time series, not just a snapshot in time? Will it also look at what was happening on the eve of the lockdown, so that we can understand the delta in capacity from the pre-lockdown period? In Glasgow, there has been a significant cliff edge—I speak from personal experience—and, in terms of ownership, a lot of assets that were previously council owned have now transitioned into third party operation. Will such factors be included in the audit, or could they be? I think that that would be valuable data.

You mentioned volunteer support policies. Are local authorities looking to support their employees with volunteering? In many areas, the council is the biggest employer, along with the NHS. Could that make a big impact?

I return to the point that Gregor Muir made about the opportunity for employer-supported volunteering. As I mentioned, I volunteered for the Commonwealth games in 2014. It was great—the atmosphere around it all was huge. How do you harness the opportunity of a big sporting event to develop links with employers and maybe test out a model that could work in the longer term? Have COSLA, sportscotland and the Commonwealth games organising committee looked at that legacy opportunity?

I thank the witnesses for their contributions so far.

I will turn to volunteering and to the picture for volunteering since the pandemic, in particular. We know that many organisations that are volunteer led are struggling with what I can only describe as a doom loop, with reduced volunteer numbers leading to the remaining volunteers taking on more responsibilities, which leads to greater burnout. I mentioned facilities earlier, and the pressure on local authorities to hand over assets for management. The pot of funding is finite and organisations are chasing one another, competing for discretionary annual funds. That produces a lot of pressure and a lot of stress. Perhaps that is taking the fun out of volunteering for a lot of organisations and lots of individuals.

I want to get the witnesses’ impression of how the volunteer model in Scotland is functioning. If it is not functioning satisfactorily, how should volunteer organisations in sport and physical activity be further supported to try to end what I see as a bit of a doom loop and a cycle of pressure that is ratcheting up?

Does Gregor Muir share that impression of a decline in volunteer numbers and that sense of pressure, despite the good work that is done?

That is an interesting point. What is COSLA’s perspective? How are councils’ interactions with volunteers and support structures looked at? We have discussed funding pressures on local authorities. I ask Jillian Gibson to comment on that.

That is helpful. Thank you.

I apologise to colleagues for the technical difficulties.

The evidence session that the committee had was extremely useful. It elicited a number of important points on the current deficiency in policy, most notably the lack of a requirement for local authorities’ building standards and building control departments to engage the services of a conservation-accredited structural engineer when assessing the need to demolish a listed building or the extent to which it should be demolished.

It was clear from the evidence from the local authority representative that there is not the time pressure that might be assumed. Normally, with initial cordoning and so on, a significant period is available to do that assessment properly and thoroughly before coming to a considered view about what can and cannot be salvaged. Similarly, too often, inappropriately qualified individuals are making those critical decisions, which have a permanent effect on the nation’s heritage.

The purpose of the petition has been proven, and the need for the recommendations of the petitioner has been proven. I understand that Save Britain’s Heritage has corresponded further with the committee, and it shared that correspondence with me. I associate myself with its comments. Save Britain’s Heritage has offered to meet the committee, which might be a useful exercise to enable the committee to further understand its specific concerns.

Moreover, the general representation of the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities is that local authorities in Scotland are simply unable to effectively use many of the statutory provisions in the Planning (Listed Buildings and Conservation Areas) (Scotland) Act 1997 due to a lack of resource and expertise. Clearly, further guidance and support are needed from central Government to give effect to the duties on local authorities with regard to preservation of heritage and giving best effect to enforcement action. There is also a need to update statutory guidance relating to the Building (Scotland) Act 2003 in relation to emergency powers and the use of dangerous buildings notices under sections 29 and 30: in the case of listed buildings or even buildings in conservation areas, an engineer who is accredited with the conservation accreditation register for engineers should be engaged prior to final decisions being made regarding what fabric can and cannot be retained. That would be useful.

Further engagement with COSLA to establish the real extent of the view of local authorities would perhaps be a useful measure. We had correspondence from Renfrewshire Council, and I certainly conveyed correspondence from Glasgow City Council. That is a widely held view across local authorities, so a COSLA planning representative might be a useful stakeholder to engage with. There is a clear need for legislative review and for the planning directorate to update guidance to further strengthen provisions in regard to protections for listed buildings.

That is my view on the matter, and I hope that the committee agrees.

On that call for reform, have you benchmarked other regimes or other structures, and what do you think we could emulate to produce a more successful outcome?