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Ms Brown, we know that farmers and those in rural communities grow food. How could Scotland’s farm to fork journey be more robustly developed by the third sector, particularly with reference to mental health, wellbeing and a sense of connection to the wider community? Could or should that be more robustly referred to in the plan?

Could the plan refer more explicitly to the idea of communal dining as a social good? Colleagues touched on procurement. Traditionally, procurement has been preoccupied with cost and quality. Perhaps we could better define social value and how we measure social value. There are ideas about social value being about reducing loneliness or the time wasted in applying for myriad funds, but there are other ways in which we could measure social value so that it demonstrates better value for communities as a whole.

I want to turn to the plan’s implications for mental health aspects. We have spoken about the potential social benefits of communal dining, but I also want to consider time poverty. Professor Jaacks mentioned that the time that is generally spent in the UK preparing and cooking food is broadly similar to the situation in France, for example. However, certainly in my experience, there are significant disparities in pressure, stress and childcare that might create variations with regard to class or gender-based roles in the community. Do you have any insights into whether, from a public health perspective, having communal dining or developing spaces such as local pantries and co-operatives might improve mental health in the community? The issue is not about individual behaviour as much as it is about creating more localised settings, even at a multiple family level, that could potentially improve social wellbeing and confidence. Does anyone want to give us their take on that?

I want to ask about the mental health implications of the plan, particularly the idea of time poverty as well as financial poverty. We know that there are significant class and gender-based variations in food and nutrition and in the role in food preparation in the community, and there has been a proposal for public diners and more communal dining spaces. What is your view on the potential for that to be rolled out in a more systemic way across Scotland?

How do you envisage that playing out? We talked about procurement, the opportunity cost of using public expenditure and the demand signal from public expenditure to sustain projects in the community. There is currently a kind of absurdity in the system in which third sector organisations are chasing ever-diminishing grant funding, leading to stress in those organisations. At the same time, vast contractual value is flowing through the system that is perhaps bypassing our communities. If that pound was working harder in a local setting, it could achieve multiple effects, including stability of local community projects, while supplying services. The development of more of a co-operative or social enterprise model could be a virtuous cycle.

That is the kind of discussion that has emerged during today’s evidence sessions. Does the minister have any reflections on that, and on providing underpinning for a community to remove the stress in organisations and the burnout that is often experienced? We often hear about communities and charities that are chasing grant funding and are stressed out about it, while service users are worried about the future of organisations to which they have a connection. There is a disparity between health boards, local authorities and health and social care partnerships, where the turning off and on of projects seems to militate against national objectives. Do you think that the whole process could be more coherent, which could provide better security all round?

By taking that approach and having different judgments on what constitutes value, do you not risk introducing inequality? In local authorities, I have often seen massive risk aversion, particularly around budgets. I imagine that there is very little appetite to be experimental.

Thanks.

How might you put structures in place to sustain that level of interest and engagement through the adult years?

I just want to follow up on the audit, because I think that getting it right is critical for our understanding of the picture. Will it be a time series, not just a snapshot in time? Will it also look at what was happening on the eve of the lockdown, so that we can understand the delta in capacity from the pre-lockdown period? In Glasgow, there has been a significant cliff edge—I speak from personal experience—and, in terms of ownership, a lot of assets that were previously council owned have now transitioned into third party operation. Will such factors be included in the audit, or could they be? I think that that would be valuable data.

You mentioned volunteer support policies. Are local authorities looking to support their employees with volunteering? In many areas, the council is the biggest employer, along with the NHS. Could that make a big impact?