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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 22 April 2025
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Displaying 606 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 November 2022

Emma Roddick

That is a good place to start. Do you agree that it is good that we are here today, having this conversation? I will bring in Paul Traynor as well as Pauline Nolan.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 November 2022

Emma Roddick

Does Pauline Nolan want to come back in?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 November 2022

Emma Roddick

Thank you very much for that. My last question is for Paul Traynor. The way that the bill is being planned allows for an evolution of the system over time. Is it right that we ensure that flexibility so that people can tell us something is not working once it is up and running? Could you tell us at this point whether you think that the general principles of the bill and the co-design intentions are right?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 November 2022

Emma Roddick

I completely understand where people are coming from when they say that they are afraid that they will not be listened to, but, when we look at the example of Social Security Scotland, there has been a lot of good feedback from disabled people’s organisations and others who were involved in the co-design. Does that offer any reassurance from your point of view?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 November 2022

Emma Roddick

My first question is for Sara Cowan. You have mentioned the need to keep equality on the agenda, and that is, indeed, the intention behind the committee’s scrutiny of the bill from a social justice perspective and in inviting this panel as witnesses. I have found the evidence this morning helpful, and I think that that is because we are discussing a framework bill and everybody giving evidence has such a specific interest in this issue as well as specific ideas for what the end proposals should look like. Have you found it in any way helpful to be asked to give evidence to a parliamentary committee with such a blank slate and to be able to say what you want the national care service to look like?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Convener and Deputy Convener

Meeting date: 10 November 2022

Emma Roddick

I nominate you, convener.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 November 2022

Emma Roddick

I will ask my first question of Dr Nolan. The fact that this is a framework bill leaves a lot of scope for co-design. Is it right to determine the details of the service in partnership with those with lived experience—the folk who know what they are talking about—or would it have been better to invite you to scrutinise a proposal that already had the details agreed?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 November 2022

Emma Roddick

Thank you. That is very clear.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 November 2022

Emma Roddick

Thank you very much. You have given us a lot to think about there, and I think that having flexibility to make further changes down the line is definitely something that I would like to keep an eye on.

I want to go back to a point that Alison White made in answer to Pam Duncan-Glancy. The financial memorandum outlines the potential benefits that a national care service could have for Scotland’s wider economy and in tackling inequalities, not just for those working in or receiving care. Do you think that a national care service will bring those wider benefits by tackling poverty and inequalities? That question is for Sara Cowan and Cara Stevenson.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 November 2022

Emma Roddick

I am sorry—what do you think is missing? I listened to everything that you said, but I am not sure what part you are referring to.