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So far, we have talked about how future policy will balance the needs of creditors and those in debt, but where is that balance now? We have heard from people who have debt and low income that, even if they are successful in claiming social security, most of their monthly payments can end up going towards paying off debt. Is there currently a balance in considering the interests of people who are in debt, or are we a little too interested in making sure that creditors have their debt repaid, including interest?

The deputy convener touched on the issue of mental health and the responsibility to freeze interest on the debts of people who are suffering illness. Taking that further, should a similar approach be taken where interest is being charged on debts that we can be reasonably certain will be paid only through social security?

I want to ask Gordon MacRae specifically about direct deductions, as well as rent being paid directly to landlords. The role of social security is not just to increase income to some magic number whereby everything is fine; it also plays a part in addressing what can often be extreme cash-flow issues. A common such issue is that rent can total more than half of someone’s income and, if we add repayments to that, it could be more than 70 per cent.

Are there concerns about social security being used to underwrite rents that are often unfairly high, which could even be increased as a reaction to the existence of those measures, without looking at the fact that the rent is higher than it should be and higher than it is possible to pay?

It is interesting that you raise the issue of stigma around free school meals. When I was in primary school, free school meal tickets were a different colour from those purchased by other kids. Should there be guidance or maybe even rules on how schools deal with free meals and protect that characteristic or folks’ identity?

This question is for Kirsty McKechnie. One thing that I find particularly difficult in relation to the wait for universal credit, for example, is that the debt gets bigger fast. Those five or six weeks can cause as much to be added to the debt as the person is about to get in social security. What should the Scottish Government do about that and what should it ask the UK Government to do?

My question is for Martin Canavan. I know from the Aberlour report on the issue, which was helpful, that councils report their data very differently. I am thinking about your points on hidden hunger. Is there data on who is not eating at all or perhaps not eating enough? Is that information available from any council, or do you plan to look into that?

In its submission, Support in Mind said that people with mental health problems often do not have the energy or motivation to improve their situation. I think that there is not enough understanding of the fact that, as well as being financially poor, people can be energy poor and time poor. Is there enough understanding within services—and in this building—of how exhausting it is to be constantly worried and working without an end in sight? I direct that question to SAMH.

My next question is for anyone with a general interest in the issue. Is anything being done to support children who are living in households that are in that situation? It will be quite traumatic for children who are growing up knowing that their parents are struggling and are exhausted all the time.

Good morning, everyone. My first question is for Sarah-Jayne Dunn, but I suspect that other witnesses will have opinions to share.

At the moment, there is still a bit of a misunderstanding that learning to budget can fix everything for everyone, but I am hearing that, for a lot of households, their income is not enough to cover their outgoings every month. It is as simple as that. Are you finding that more people are coming to you for help who have no possible way of making ends meet with their current income or benefits?

Thank you.