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That is a really important point. I like that you made the connection between your point that people who are experienced in dealing with social work cases really understand the nuances of such cases and the fact that AI uses a great deal of power. You also connected that point to the need to tackle the climate emergency.

I will bring in Alexander Stewart to ask about workforce issues.

Good morning, and welcome to the 24th meeting in 2025 of the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee. I remind all members and witnesses to ensure that their devices are on silent. We have received apologies from Mark Griffin MSP, Meghan Gallacher MSP and Willie Coffey MSP. Fulton MacGregor joins us online this morning.

Under the first item on our agenda does the committee agree to take items 3, 4 and 5 in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Thanks. Do you have anything to add, Maureen?

You covered that well, John. You started to touch on the impact on your members, and I am interested to hear your thoughts on the impact of previous spending decisions on service users and employees. Could you expand on your view of that?

Fulton MacGregor is with us. He has always been with us, but we have had a bit of a technical issue in getting him up on the screen and getting his microphone turned on. It is good to see you, Fulton. If you want to come in on anything—[Interruption.] His image is gone, so I will keep talking and hope that he is still there. Is there anything that you want to pick up on workforce issues, Fulton? If you could then ask your remaining questions, that would be great. No? Okay, then I will pick up those questions.

We are interested in understanding—in the context of transformation, but it is connected to the workforce—the need for training in digital literacy to ensure that our workforce is capable of navigating changes and challenges. I hear the backdrop of suspicion that is out there, but, AI aside, there are tremendous opportunities with digital literacy. I wonder what your thoughts are on that.

Yes, Fulton—we covered that area sufficiently. We bottomed that one out, I would say. If you could move on to collaboration and involvement in the public service reform board, that would be brilliant.

That is great. We have been talking about collaboration. The idea came out of the work on the Christie commission that we need to move towards a more joined-up approach with collaboration across agencies.

Maureen, you said that you did not have any solutions. Let us pull back from IJBs and community planning partnerships specifically and think about your experience. What do we need to do more of to get genuine collaboration? What is happening? Are there skill sets that fall under collaboration? Do we need to support people to recognise that giving up their own corner and stepping in leads to something better, which is ultimately what we are trying to do with public service reform? You might not have an idea now, but you could come back to us on that.

I know what you mean about feeling that there is another level. I have certainly had that feeling when I have been involved in a discussion and, at a certain point, it has felt as though the decision has been made somewhere else.

I want to drill down a bit on the issue that Fulton MacGregor raised. Is Unison or another trade union involved in the Scottish Government’s public service reform board? Are you aware of that?

I am glad that I asked the question, because a four-day working week would seem to be a positive response to the issues of sickness and recruitment and retention, which Alexander Stewart asked about. If we move to a four-day working week, as well as making it more appealing for people to come in, that could help with the sickness issue, because it would enable people to get some proper downtime. As you said, people’s work-life balance also comes into play.

The second item on our agenda is an evidence session as part of our pre-budget scrutiny. I remind everyone that the committee has agreed to focus on public service reform. This is the third of our evidence sessions. Today, we are joined by Maureen Dickson, regional organiser, and John Mooney, also a regional organiser, both from Unison. I welcome you to the meeting. There is no need for you to operate your microphones—we will do that for you.

We will just throw our questions out and one or other of you can pick them up. I will start. We have three themes to go through: budget and funding trends; workforce issues; and the approach to transformation.

So far in our evidence sessions, we have heard that, off the back of the Verity house agreement and the conversations around that, ring fencing has decreased. We also hear that, off the back of the United Kingdom Government’s spending review, multiyear funding could be an option in the upcoming budget. I am interested to hear about what you have seen in terms of that change in ring fencing and the potential for multiyear funding. Who wants to pick that one up first?