Seòmar agus comataidhean

Come on in, then.

Thanks, Fulton, for giving people an opportunity to get out the big highlighter pen and pick out anything that they want the committee to hear loud and clear.

I am going to bring in David Raine before Cornelia Helmcke, because I think that he has a direct response to that point.

This is a great conversation, but we have already eaten into an hour of our time and we are still on themes 3 and 4. Therefore, I ask everyone to keep their responses more succinct. Everything that you have contributed so far has been tremendous, but I ask you to pull the conversation back to what you want to change in the climate change plan, because that will be the most constructive approach. We can then report to the Government and say, “We had this incredible conversation with people who really know what they’re talking about and this is what they think needs to be changed in the plan.” I am just asking for a little tweak in the approach.

Good morning, and welcome to the 29th meeting in 2025 of the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee. We are joined online by Fulton MacGregor this morning, and Evelyn Tweed and Meghan Gallacher have given their apologies.

Agenda item 1 is a decision on taking business in private. Does the committee agree to take item 4 in private?

Members indicated agreement.

The next item on our agenda is a round-table discussion on the Scottish Government’s draft climate change plan, with a focus on the buildings element of the plan as well as the role of local authorities.

We are joined by Dr Richard Atkins, a chartered architect representing the Royal Incorporation of Architects in Scotland; Dr Jocelyne Fleming, senior policy and public affairs officer, Chartered Institute of Building; Io Hadjicosta from WWF Scotland, who is representing Stop Climate Chaos Scotland; Cornelia Helmcke from the University of St Andrews, who is representing the Scottish Research Alliance for Energy, Homes and Livelihoods; Alistair Hill, head of energy transition, Consumer Scotland; Neil Osborne, service lead, climate and energy, the Highland Council; David Raine, policy manager, Homes for Scotland; and Derek Rankine, head of policy and strategy, Built Environment Forum Scotland. We are joined online by Professor Janette Webb, professorial fellow in social and political science, University of Edinburgh.

I warmly welcome everyone to the meeting. There is no need for you to operate your microphones, and I remind us all to ensure that our devices are on silent. We have agreed to hold the session in a round-table format to encourage a free-flowing conversation on the content of the draft plan. If you would like to come in on a question or at any point in the conversation, please indicate as much to me or the clerk.

We have about two hours for this discussion, and we have quite a lot to get through. As time goes on, I might need to ask you to make your contributions a bit more succinct—that tends to be what happens—and to come in only if you have something to add to the conversation instead of reiterating someone else’s point. If you wish to respond to a particular point, but the conversation has moved on, you are, of course, welcome to bring up the point when you come back in, but you can also write to us with anything that you do not manage to say.

I do not think that there is anything else to highlight, except to say to colleagues that I would be grateful if you could indicate who you are directing your questions to in the first instance. That would be helpful, as it would let people know who was getting the question first.

I am going to start with a general question. I think that it would be good to hear from everybody on this, so I will just go round the room. Because you are the nearest to me, Richard, I am going to ask you to speak first, then I will just go round everyone and finish with Janette Webb, who is online.

What are your views, in general, on the climate change plan? Will it drive progress in reducing emissions and build on the previous climate change plan?

I have a comment on the second instrument. We have received some short-notice information on the instrument—two letters—and it would be good for us to take time to consider and potentially write to the Scottish Government on the back of that correspondence. Are we agreed?

Members indicated agreement.

There is the question of who is going to build it and what are the skills needed. There is also a piece that has been coming up this morning, and which has been around before, which is about scale. Who is going to be the person who goes go into the neighbourhood and has that capacity for project management, but also talks to neighbours and gets everybody on board, including a resistant, nervous person. There is a human relational thing that goes along with the project management, and the skill set for that needs to be addressed as well.

I am walking a fine line, because we are here to talk about the climate change plan and buildings, but of course that takes us into the heat in buildings issue. The committee recently went to a waste-energy-to-heat project. Last week, the research team in the Parliament held a breakfast session on the issue. We heard from Glasgow City Council about how it might tap into the Clyde. Are you looking at things like that in Inverness?

So we really need that certainty to be built into the plan, so that there is an opportunity for private finance to come in and partner with you. I also hear what you said about getting tighter on and not allowing opt-outs through exemptions.

Jocelyne, you indicated that you want to come back in. Then I will bring in Willie Coffey and we will deepen the questioning into skills and workforce.