Seòmar agus comataidhean

Professor Griggs, I am joining the meeting virtually and am very sorry that I cannot be with you in person today. I was interested to hear your perspective on community. I thank you for doing all that work.

I have been speaking to coastal communities as well—I speak to people who earn their living by catching crabs and lobsters. The coast is where people in those communities swim, where their children play and where tourists, who also bring money into the local economy, come to enjoy diving and water sports. It is interesting that you were talking about who the community is. Some people do not want fish farms even if they would receive payment, because many of them would see that as being bought off.

You have recommended a single consenting document, but that seems not to include a mechanism for communities to reject the imposition of a new or expanded industrial fish farm in their local waters. I would like to hear your thoughts on the principle that coastal communities should have a say in where fish farms are located.

Thank you for that response. I will move on to questions about the exceptions in sections 3 and 5 to 7 of the bill. Last week, Chief Superintendent Mike Flynn from the Scottish Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals stated:

“The purpose of the majority of the bill is to close the loopholes in the act”.

He related that, under the 2002 act,

“every badger baiter has said that they were after foxes, and every hare courser has said that they were after rabbits”.

He also stated that many terms

“have to be defined better”

and that

“the licensing provisions have to be specified and fleshed out if NatureScot is to have a reasonable chance of doing a good licensing job.”—[Official Report, Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee, 15 June 2022; c 11.]

Do the witnesses agree with those statements? Will the bill close loopholes and remove ambiguities despite its many exceptions and its licensing scheme?

Thank you for flagging up the species list; that sounds like an onerous task. I turn to Robbie Kernahan. I do not know whether I need to recap my question, but it picked up on Chief Superintendent Flynn’s statements that many terms

“have to be defined better”

and that

“the licensing provisions have to be specified and fleshed out if NatureScot is to have a reasonable chance of doing a good licensing job.”—[Official Report, Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee, 15 June 2022; c 11.]

Could you talk about the clarity in those exceptions?

This is the final question that I need to get answered, convener. Professor Griggs, I want to understand the concern in community groups and non-governmental organisations about the proposed central science evidence base being run and managed by the industry and the Scottish Government. How would you reassure concerned stakeholders that your recommendations will ensure the independence of the science that is used for decision making on aquaculture expansion and regulation?

Item 2 is for the committee to take evidence from the Accounts Commission on its recently published “Local government in Scotland: Overview 2022” and “Local government in Scotland: Financial overview 2020/21”. Our witnesses today are: Dr Bill Moyes, chair of the Accounts Commission; Antony Clark, director of performance audit and best value and interim controller of audit at Audit Scotland; Carol Calder, interim audit director at Audit Scotland; Blyth Deans, interim senior manager at Audit Scotland; and Lucy Jones, senior auditor also at Audit Scotland. I welcome witnesses to our meeting.

It would be helpful if members could direct their questions to a specific witness where possible, although I will be happy to bring others in who wish to contribute. I suggest that members direct their initial questions to Dr Bill Moyes and then he can direct them to the correct witness because he will have a greater understanding of who might have the answers that we need.

I open the session to questions from members. I will start by asking how councils use the reports that the Accounts Commission creates. As those reports are broad in focus and contain a significant amount of analysis from across local authorities, I am keen to hear more about how they influence local authority financial service and workforce planning. I am also interested in how the Accounts Commission tracks the impact of its reports and improves their usefulness to local authorities. I address that question to Bill Moyes. Good morning, Bill.

I am sorry; you are right. Marie McNair will ask those questions.

I will bring in Paul McLennan to ask questions on longer-term financial sustainability and the impact of budget changes on individual services.

Does Carol Calder want to come in on that? I see that Willie Coffey wants to come in on the general theme.

It is a work in progress. Thanks, Willie, for that question.

We have come to the end of our questions, but I want to hand back to Bill Moyes. Do you have any closing comments? Maybe we have not covered something that you want to highlight. I would love to give you time to do that.

Thank you very much for underscoring that. That point certainly did come out in the session.

It has been a really rich discussion. I am glad that we have this relationship with the Accounts Commission and that we are going to be seeing you at least annually. I find that the overview reports are very helpful for us to understand what is happening in local authorities. I have also been finding local authority reports for my region very useful.

I thank all of you who have taken part today and helped us to understand more of what is going on at a deeper level.

As that is the last of the public items on our agenda, I close the public part of the meeting.