Seòmar agus comataidhean

Okay. Thanks very much.

We now move on to the anticipated draft Energy Efficiency (Domestic Private Rented Properties) (Scotland) Regulations. First, I want to thank Elaine Waterson for her patience this morning—this is a topic on which her contribution is very welcome. For background, and so that we are all on the same page, the regulations have not yet been laid—although I think that we all know that.

I will bring in Meghan Gallacher with the first questions.

This has been a very useful discussion on the SSIs. I thank the witnesses for making time to join us.

I suspend the meeting briefly to allow the witnesses to leave.

11:57

Meeting suspended.

11:58

On resuming—

Thanks very much.

Mark, do you have any more questions?

Good morning and welcome to the seventh meeting in 2026 of the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee. I remind all members and witnesses to ensure that their devices are set to silent. Mark Griffin and Fulton MacGregor join us remotely.

The first item on our agenda is a decision on taking business in private. Do members agree to take agenda item 4 in private?

Members indicated agreement.

The next item on our agenda is to take evidence on three draft affirmative instruments: the draft Private Housing Rent Control (Exempt Property) (Scotland) Regulations 2026, the draft Investigation and Commencement of Repair (Scotland) Regulations 2026 and the draft Council Tax (Variation for Unoccupied Dwellings) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 2026. We will also take evidence on an anticipated instrument on minimum energy efficiency standards in the private rented sector.

We are joined in the room by Gillian Campbell, the director of the Existing Homes Alliance Scotland; Anna Gardiner, a senior policy adviser at Scottish Land & Estates; and Gillian McLees, the national director of the Chartered Institute of Housing Scotland. Tom Ockendon, who is the policy lead at the Scottish Federation of Housing Associations, joins us online. I welcome you all to the meeting and thank you for coming to discuss these Scottish statutory instruments. There is no need to turn on your microphones because we will do that for you. Tom, there might be a bit of a pause as your microphone comes on and off, but we are familiar with that so please do not worry.

We will begin our questions now. We have about an hour and 10 minutes for this item, so we are quite tight for time and I might need to cut you off. We will try to direct our questions, because they will not all be relevant to each of you.

My questions, which are for everyone except Gillian Campbell, who gets to have a rest, are about the Private Housing Rent Control (Exempt Property) (Scotland) Regulations. I will start with Anna. Do you agree in principle with the proposal to exempt mid-market rent and build-to-rent properties from the rent control area provisions?

I will continue the questioning about the targeted scientific programme. It is good to hear that the programme could still take place even without the SSI.

In 2024, the Government committed to an enhanced science plan for the Clyde to improve scientific observations, and we now have the TSP. Why, after repeated scientific initiatives, are you not in a position to consider alternative approaches? When will that position change? Given what has been said this morning, it feels as though you are not confident that you are seeing the whole picture, but everything points to the problem being the significant amount of bycatch from a nephrops trawl resulting in a high fish mortality rate. An alarm is being raised about that high fishing mortality, which is expected to remove around 80 per cent of the biomass each year.

You are putting something in place, but it seems to me that we already have the data, as we heard in evidence from the scientists at the round-table session. You now say that we must have more scientific evidence from creelers and look at their bycatch, yet alarm bells are being sounded about an emergency situation because of the massive reduction in biomass.

Can you tell me a little about the 2024 science? What did you do and what data was gathered? What has changed, and what was not delivered that means that we need the TSP? That would be a helpful start.

But all the evidence that we have had suggests that the bycatch from nephrops trawlers is the problem that is ringing the alarm bells. It feels to me as though this SSI is saying, “Oh, but let’s look over here, at creelers.” I was talking about trawlers in another session and the conversation always ends up going back to creelers. I hear your point. You want to look at the creeler bycatch, but, from the data, it looks as though it is going to be a small amount. You are busy putting time and effort into looking at the bycatch from creel fishing while this alarm bell is ringing and saying, “This is the problem.” Yes, there will be future catching policies and other things that will come in, and there is a bigger context and picture, but you could do this TSP without having this SSI in place.

Let me think this through a little bit. I should say that I thank the Shetland Fishermen’s Association for educating me on the different gears with its wonderful annual handbook that shows you all the pictures. To my mind, if you have a big net moving across the surface of the sea, you will have a lot more juvenile cod bycatch than you will if you just have a pot sitting quietly on the seabed.

I heard what you said to my colleague about not being able to bring back another SSI immediately. However, as I understand it, our legal obligations will require whoever is in post after the election to address the problem urgently and find a better solution. The bycatch from a nephrops trawl is the issue that has been held up brightly in our evidence sessions and in the letters that we receive. I want to clarify that the Government’s legal constraints mean that something will have to be done, starting on 10 or 11 May, to address the bycatch issue. If the SSI is annulled, we cannot just drop the issue—we have to do something.

So, if the order were to be annulled, fishing would happen. Given that the TSP has already been thought through and planned, could there be an opportunity to use it to look at what happens when fishing happens? Could that be a starting point?