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Thanks very much for that, Donna. Do you have any comments, Jonathan?

That is a good note to end on. It pulls us back to looking at not only the Verity house agreement, but the local government review in its entirety. I have always been keen that we do not lose sight of that piece of community empowerment. There are certainly some things for us to think about on the community wealth building bill and the local democracy bill, which will be introduced soon.

Thank you all. As I said, this has been a constructive session. We have got things to take away and look at and we will see whether we can squeeze in some evidence sessions in the future. I have taken some notes about getting evidence on some of the things that you have said. It has been a very constructive morning and I appreciate your sharing some time with us. Thank you so much.

As we previously agreed to take the next four items in private, that was the last public item on our agenda.

There are on-going discussions about council tax in general and its future. You talked earlier about what is happening in Italy and the standing committee that negotiates the funding that comes with policy from central Government—that is what I understood you were saying. We have a local democracy bill coming up this session. I wonder whether that will give us the opportunity to look at whether enough is in place to build on and go in that kind of direction with that bill as a vehicle.

That is a way in which technology is helping us to relax a little bit.

Jim Gallagher, I want to comment on a point that you made about making it clear what local government can do under its own steam and about how councils can make things work in their particular geography. Since being in this role, I have recognised how critical that is in Scotland, where we have very different geographies, with so many inhabited islands and areas such as Highland, where people in some places feel that their communities might as well be islands. It is really important to get that clarity, so it was good to hear that from you.

That is really helpful. I look forward to seeing those slides because it would be helpful to see that scenario illustrated.

As someone already mentioned, this is an interesting morning on which to take evidence because the budget is about to be announced. We will be even more informed, in a few hours, as to what is going on.

I will bring in Pam Gosal with a question.

Absolutely.

Good morning, and welcome to the 31st meeting in 2023 of the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee. Please note that we have received apologies from Mark Griffin.

I remind all members and witnesses to ensure that their devices are on silent.

The first item on our agenda is to decide whether to take items 3 and 4 in private. Do members agree to take those items in private?

Members indicated agreement.

That more nuanced approach is very interesting. There might not be only one way to approach the relationship. Instead, depending on the issue or policy, there could be different ways to do things, either by funding an agent or by supporting a democratically elected partnership. That is very helpful.

Donna Hall, do you have any thoughts about rebuilding trust or any experience of the relationship between national and local governments in other parts of the world?

I come back to Jonathan Carr-West. You did some research that involved talking to council leaders. However, in my understanding, the Verity house agreement is an agreement between the Scottish Government and the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities. That is where the communications happen, and then COSLA has a way of communicating with the leadership of local authorities.

Do you have any communication with COSLA around communications and what is happening there?

Thanks for that. As I said earlier, there is work being done in the Scottish Government around council tax reform. I would say bring it on, as soon as possible.

We move to questions from Marie McNair.