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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 28 March 2026
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Displaying 3402 contributions

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Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 30 October 2025

Stephen Kerr

It is not the board’s responsibility. All right.

Freedom of information requests have shown that the HES human resources department removed an independent investigator’s recommendation that an urgent review of the organisation’s culture be carried out after staff reported a “culture of fear” and “fear of retribution”. The Auditor General has now flagged culture as a material concern, alongside the so-called “HES Corruption” volumes.

I will put these questions to Andrew Davis, who has been a director at HES for some time, because I acknowledge that it is not fair to ask Sir Mark Jones to address them. Why was the recommendation that a culture review be carried out deleted from the investigator’s report? I am quoting FOI information.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 30 October 2025

Stephen Kerr

Someone needs to come in to deal with these issues who is not currently part of the organisation and who has no particular dog in the fight, because there has been a lot of dog fighting in HES over the period of probably more than a year.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 30 October 2025

Stephen Kerr

Earlier, in answer to Jamie Halcro Johnston’s question, you said that it is almost certain that some people will have to leave HES in order for that to happen.

I wonder whether I can tempt you to answer this very simple question. Would it be helpful from a resource point of view—you specifically mentioned resource, and we have not yet talked about the current finances of HES—to you as the new chair of HES if the cabinet secretary were to resource an independent investigation? By “independent”, I mean independent of the Scottish Government and independent of HES. Would it be useful to you in your work, in relation to the charge that Angus Robertson has given you as the new chairman of HES, if Angus Robertson were to initiate that form of independent inquiry, which would deal primarily with the whole culture of the organisation?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 30 October 2025

Stephen Kerr

You have had no such meetings at all—there have been no meetings between Angus Robertson and the board.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 30 October 2025

Stephen Kerr

Okay. That is quite an interesting and revealing statement, in and of itself.

With regard to the organisation’s current finances, it has been publicly discussed that there is currently a shortfall of between £4.5 million and £5 million in this year’s budget. Can you bring us up to speed on where HES’s finances are?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 30 October 2025

Stephen Kerr

I do. Thank you, convener, for your indulgence. I want to go back to Stephen Boyle’s letter to me on Friday, in which he said:

“I am also concerned that Historic Environment Scotland has operated without an Accountable Officer for an extended period”.

On the basis of what I have heard this morning, I am now unclear about this. The chief executive officer of HES was not in the business; therefore, there was no accountable officer. Is that right? You went without one for a length of time—the letter refers to “an extended period”.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 30 October 2025

Stephen Kerr

So, what did you do? Did you just point out that you did not have one but not say, “We need one”? Was it understood that you were saying, “We need an accountable officer because we do not have one in the business”?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 30 October 2025

Stephen Kerr

I was not referring to who the accountable officer should be; I was asking whether you asked the Scottish Government for an accountable officer because, to use Stephen Boyle’s words, the accountable officer was out of the business for “an extended period”?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 30 October 2025

Stephen Kerr

Why did you point out that there was no accountable officer if that is nothing to do with you? You are aware of the requirements under the Scottish public finance manual. You were presumably pointing it out on the basis that you thought that you should have one.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 30 October 2025

Stephen Kerr

You are dancing around my question. It is a very simple question. Did you ask the Scottish Government to appoint an accountable officer?