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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 11 January 2026
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Displaying 3006 contributions

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Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 September 2025

Stephen Kerr

In any organisation, internal control and culture around internal control is critical to the management of public money. What is happening inside HES?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 September 2025

Stephen Kerr

I am going to be very specific now, if I may. I have been approached by a number of whistleblowers and other people who have brought certain things to my attention. I have a list, but I will give you one example that causes me some concern about attitude, culture and internal control.

It has been brought to my attention by a number of people that on 11 August, one of the directors of HES had a dinner with a companion in the Queen Anne building at Edinburgh Castle. The Queen Anne building is a facility that is reserved for parties of up to 40 people and it can cost up to £12,000 to hire—I am not sure whether that includes the catering, but I think that maybe it does. Someone said to me that of that £12,000, £9,000 would come directly back into Historic Scotland. However, two people, a director and a companion, dined in that space alone, which apparently—this is why it has been brought to my attention—is very irregular.

When I read reports that the directors have the attitude—this is an allegation—that they

“walk around like they own our castles”,

and then people said to me that on 11 August, during the time of the tattoo, a director and a companion ate alone in that very prestigious and expensive room, alarm bells rang. You will understand that. A director is treating that property as if it is their own.

If I do a freedom of information request—I intend to do this, by the way; I am giving you advance notice—to discover the circumstances of that event in the Queen Anne building, what will I discover? I think that I might discover that they paid a token amount. Instead of £12,000, did they pay £50 or £100, or maybe nothing at all? Can you understand why I am concerned about internal control and the directors’ attitude towards managing the public finances when that sort of thing is brought to my attention?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 September 2025

Stephen Kerr

What are the three high-risk maintenance issues that you are looking at?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 September 2025

Stephen Kerr

There are lots of other questions that I could ask you, but time does not allow it.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 September 2025

Stephen Kerr

I have some more questions, if it is possible to ask them.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 September 2025

Stephen Kerr

You talk about needing an increase in funding and say that nothing has changed since 2008—in terms of value, you are on the same as you were on in 2008. What would it take?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 September 2025

Stephen Kerr

That is from 2008. The funding was £4 million in 2008 and it is still £4 million.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 September 2025

Stephen Kerr

That would be helpful.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Desecration of War Memorials (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 September 2025

Stephen Kerr

In a way, convener, your comments underpin something that Meghan Gallacher is presenting to us about the significance of these places. My question is very simple—it is almost redundant now, I fear. Before I ask it, I want to pay tribute to the friends of Dennistoun war memorial, who have constantly striven to raise this issue and to seek a special level of protection for war memorials in Scotland.

In relation to the damage that was done at Carronshore, which is in the Central Scotland region that I know well, I am pretty sure that no one was convicted. Part of my concern about the whole issue is that I am not sure that anyone even gets prosecuted.

However, setting that aside, Ms Gallacher, can you tell us clearly why you feel that a stand-alone offence is merited? You mentioned Jonathan Gullis’s private member’s bill, which the UK Government took over in 2022 and inserted into a bill that was going through the House of Commons and the House of Lords, so there is not a stand-alone act in England. Why do you think that there should be one in Scotland?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Desecration of War Memorials (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 September 2025

Stephen Kerr

The additional levers include sentences of up to 10 years in prison and fines of up to £10,000. Those seem onerous. You might be about to make an argument about deterrence—I understand that—but is there a particular reason for the extent of the potential sanctions and punishments?