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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 28 March 2026
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Displaying 3402 contributions

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Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 6 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

He is here to be held to account and I do not need that interaction to be explained to me. I do not need how the process is supposed to work to be mansplained to me.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 6 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

No, I do not mean at events. When was the last time that you had a formal meeting?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 6 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

No, that was at an event.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 6 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

That is not a meeting, cabinet secretary. If you meet at an event and you stand in line together and you chit-chat together, that does not constitute a formal meeting. There are no records of any formal meetings between you and Hugh Hall when he was the chairman of HES.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 6 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

Cabinet secretary, there are no records of any formal meetings between you and the board. There are no records of any formal meetings between you and the chairman of HES for the four-and-a-half years that you have been the cabinet secretary. Given the state of HES, particularly in the last 18 months or so, I consider that to be, frankly, a dereliction of duty on your part as an accountable member of the Scottish Government for that very important body.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 6 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

You have not attended a single board meeting.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 6 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

That is very helpful because one of the elements of the triggering of the Auditor General’s section 22 report is the lack of an accountable officer in the organisation. If I understand you correctly, you have said that the board was fully engaged in a discussion with you about the lack of an accountable officer and that there were mutual suggestions about how that might be dealt with. Is that correct?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 6 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

Right, and last week a board member said that that is Angus Robertson’s responsibility.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 6 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

Thank you very much.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 6 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

You say “at all levels”, but that is patently not the case, because you have not been engaged personally. “All levels” would include you, but you have not been in attendance at a single meeting. I find it really odd that you say that you requested that officials attend board meetings—I understand why you made that request—but you did not request that you meet the board. I simply point out that Fiona Hyslop, your predecessor, met the board in person at least twice a year—sometimes three times a year—and that is without the organisation being in a state of chaos and crisis. During the time that you have been cabinet secretary, particularly latterly, it has been clear that the organisation is in deep trouble, but you did not choose to meet the board in the way that you requested your officials to do. Why is that? Do you recognise that that absence of engagement undermines the visibility of ministerial accountability?