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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 6 December 2025
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Displaying 2925 contributions

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Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

I am not sure about that, if I am honest with you, Hedydd.

Can I broaden the discussion out and bring in Dr Grau Creus on the Dunlop review of intergovernmental relations, which was published in 2022? The work was done before 2019—it was set up by Theresa May. Why have the recommendations of that review not been fully implemented, especially in respect to the secretariat? I think that that is the hinge issue in terms of transparency, the frequency of meetings, the quality of meetings and parliamentary scrutiny. Why has that not happened?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

Governments count on the fact that few people are watching and listening, but that is exactly what we are here to do, as you know.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

Excellent. That is the Welsh blood in me.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

Yes.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

It is perceptive that you say that, because central to the Dunlop review was the secretariat but also a dispute resolution mechanism.

I will ask the others to comment on the Dunlop review. To me, we now have a structure, but we do not have frequency of meetings, we do not have train tracks and we do not have a rail timetable. What we have is a schematic outline of something that happens when someone decides somewhere that we will have a meeting. That does not seem terribly satisfactory if we want a joined-up and mature process of intergovernmental working.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

You mention Canada, and I am sure at the forefront of consideration—you can see this in the review that Dunlop produced—was the idea that there ought to be a rewiring of Whitehall. You started off talking about the Whitehall conundrum and the one week a year when it has a devo focus, whereas devolution has transformed our constitutional working arrangements, which means that the wiring is out of date in many instances in Whitehall, and so is the culture.

I appreciate that I will run out of time, convener. Rachel, would you like to comment? Then we can hear from Hedydd.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

I understand that a dispute is currently going through the mechanism—I had not been aware of that until this week.

Hedydd, do you have any final comments on the issue of Dunlop, the secretariat and the dispute resolution?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

Thank you all for taking on my questions.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

I put it to you that they are not meeting very regularly. I have the numbers here. Some of these committees have met only once, including—astonishingly—the interministerial group on UK-EU relations. We have to be careful that we do not get caught up with the surface veneer of what we are being told. In reality, nothing has changed.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

Thereby hangs a tale. We have a system and a structure. It is looking through a glass darkly, to use a biblical phrase. Can we go to Hedydd Phylip? I hope that I am pronouncing your name properly, Hedydd.