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I would like to press you on that. That is all good, but what numbers and what percentage are we looking at? The level is currently 12 per cent, which is one in eight of all Scotland’s teachers. What is the success that you are looking for in terms of a reduction—I presume that we agree that we want a reduction in that number—

Yes. You are on now.

Who do you want to bring in?

That seems like a fair summary and a fair request from Fergus Ewing.

Frank Mitchell and Sharon Drysdale want to respond to Fergus Ewing’s line of questioning, then we will go to Oliver Mundell. Ross Greer has had a few technical problems, but we will go back to him after we have heard from Oliver Mundell.

The employers feel that they are not in the room when the decisions about apprenticeships are made. Is that opinion justified? Does the experience of your membership support that idea that was given to us last week?

Perhaps you could help me to understand what you said earlier. I said that our witnesses told us last week that they feel that they are not in the room. I put that view to you, and you said that it was not justified because the Scottish Apprenticeship Advisory Board is in the room. Describe to me what your organisation would prefer to be the arrangement in order to deliver a demand-led apprenticeship system.

That is helpful. Frank Mitchell would like to come in on the questions that Allan and I have been discussing. Frank, what is your take?

Allan Colquhoun suggested some kind of voucher system whereby the money is basically released back to employers and they can then use it effectively to match the demand, which would lift the numbers. You say that there are 1,370 graduate apprentices while the demand is 4,000. Allan Colquhoun has suggested that vouchers should be available to employers to get the apprentices that they want. I may have misinterpreted Allan—he will come back in if I have done so—but what is your reaction to that?

That is absolutely fair and fine. We will go to Bob Doris.

Would you like someone to comment on that, Bob?