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Thank you for emphasising the need to take a holistic approach in tackling poverty. As a teacher for more than 30 years, I taught many demographics in many areas of multiple deprivation, and a lot of what you are saying about seeing the child and the whole family has resonated with me.

Over the years, including recently during Covid, has there been a change in culture in education and a greater awareness of the impacts of deprivation? As we recover, how can we ensure that learners and families are at the heart of that recovery and that the focus is on them rather than on systems and the mechanistic side of things?

That is all right. It was interesting to hear what you had to say about that.

I turn to Satwat Rehman. My original question was about a cultural change in education, greater awareness of the impacts of deprivation and putting families and children rather than systems at the heart of the recovery.

I remember talking about the phrase “readiness to learn” quite a lot in the profession.

I want to move the discussion on a little. I do not want to take away John Dickie’s opportunity to speak, but I am conscious of the time. I am thinking about interventions that can help the situation. We always need to measure things somehow—we need to have proof of outcomes. I am thinking about clothing grants and free school meals, for example, but also about universal credit cuts and benefit caps, which have been mentioned in written submissions. Can you give me some examples of interventions that have had either a positive impact or a negative impact on children and families?

I would like Stephen McGhee to come in. I want to focus on support for families. Let us say that a digital device is provided to a household for educational purposes and to improve digital literacy, which Linda O’Neill mentioned. The family has to get involved in order to achieve that, does it not? How can we best support the entire family—in supporting the child—and improve their digital literacy skills in order to gain maximum benefit from digital devices?

That is a fair point. I would not dismiss any of that. I acknowledge the importance of considering the whole child and taking a holistic approach, notwithstanding the fact that my line of questioning focused on digital provision.

I am interested in digital provision. I was a teacher before I got this job. I taught during lockdown, so I am aware of what happened in mainstream education. Schools—certainly upper schools—had digital devices, and councils redeployed devices. It is clear, however, that access to devices was wanting, shall we say. There were not enough digital devices, and I exposed that.

The Scottish Government has committed substantial amounts of money for hardware and software. I am interested in what lessons can be learned and what we could tell the Scottish Government about how best to spend the money to support digital learning, whether that is for online academies or access to syllabuses. I am mindful that there is, however, no replacement for socialisation, especially for children with additional support needs and vulnerable children.

I will go to Bruce Adamson first, then to Linda O’Neill, then to Stephen McGhee, if there is anything that he wants to add. Could you illustrate a couple of areas where access to hardware and software could have been better and more appropriately matched to children with additional support needs? I know that that is a big umbrella and that different things are suited to different children.

I recall the differences between the first and second lockdowns. To begin with, we had to turn on a sixpence, and everybody was adapting to a quite shocking set of circumstances. Thank you for acknowledging that.

There appears to still be a lot of stigma attached to seeking help and support. We were all isolated in the Covid context, but certain families and children from the backgrounds that I mentioned were even more isolated. Can any of the other panellists give examples of any outreach or other work that was done around that?

It is connected. I note the rise in the number of children and young people who are identified as having additional support needs. About a third of our pupils have been identified as such, and we know that there has been a disproportionate effect on them in the context of Covid. I want to drill down into that and ask about the continued underdiagnosis of black and minority ethnic cultural background children and families, which has been brought to my attention through my inbox as a constituency MSP, as well as when I was a teacher.

Can you provide any examples of engagement, support or evidence gathering to get the perspectives of children, families and young people from black and minority ethnic heritage and cultural backgrounds?

I was thinking about the advocacy services that you talked about, and the importance of ensuring that cultural awareness is built into them. That applies to interpretation services, too. Laurie, do you have anything to add?