Seòmar agus comataidhean

Welcome to the 13th meeting in 2023 of the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee. There are no apologies.

Our first agenda item is to decide whether to consider evidence in private under agenda item 3. Do we agree to do that?

Members indicated agreement.

I think that Professor Boyle wanted to add something on your previous question.

Before we come to the end of our session, I want to pick up on a couple of points that have been mentioned already.

Remedy and justice will look different for different people. For some people, taking a court challenge is the route that they wish to explore, but it might be that a remedy would also require non-legal routes. I am keen to hear the panel’s thoughts on what kind of non-legal routes would be open to people who wish to challenge any breaches. I will start with Dr Webster.

So, it needs to be flexible, adaptable and responsive. I get that.

That is very helpful.

A lot of people, including people with lived experience, might not have a concept of what dignity is. If they have lived without dignity, their expectations—if they have any at all—are going to be different. How would the participatory process ensure that people with lived experience understand what dignity is and live with dignity? Who monitors that? Dr Webster, I think that that question is for you.

Briefly, please, in the interests of time.

That would be great. Rachael Hamilton has indicated that she would like to come in. Before she does, I have a question that follows on from Pam Gosal’s questions.

Governments come and go, but the policies that they put in place can have far-reaching effects. Recently, we have been taking evidence on asylum seekers and refugees. Some of the organisations that have given the committee evidence on the Illegal Migration Bill have said that it would breach the human rights of asylum seekers and refugees. We have been looking at the tensions and the use of devolved powers to mitigate the perceived harms. How would what we are talking about fit into that context? Professor Boyle is nodding her head so I will take that as an indication that she wants to comment.

Dr Webster, do you have any ideas or thoughts about including the people whom Professor Miller referred to? They are often the most disenfranchised and furthest from communication systems, and so are difficult to reach. What have other countries done that we could learn from to ensure that those voices are at the heart of the participatory process?

Professor Boyle, what do you think are the challenges in the participatory process? For example, might there be areas of contention around certain rights? We do not need to go into those rights because my colleagues will explore them further later. I am thinking about areas such as health, housing and education, and what is realistically achievable.

Sorry—Professor Boyle has indicated that she wants to come in, so I will bring her in first.