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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 22 April 2025
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Displaying 810 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (Incorporation) (Scotland) Bill: Reconsideration Stage

Meeting date: 31 October 2023

Kaukab Stewart

If no one else wants to come in, I just want to say on behalf of the committee that we have found this to be a very useful session. I think that we have managed to get under the skin of some of the areas of contention to ensure that we move on at pace while also providing a very thorough scrutiny process.

We all appreciated the way in which Juliet Harris brought alive the children’s voices in such a practical way through the image of the spider’s web. From our point of view, we want to ensure that that web is robust so that in the future, when we add on all the bits that will strengthen children’s rights, we have a framework—a web—that is robust enough to carry them.

I agree that children are well able to understand complicated concepts regarding their own needs, wants and rights. When I was a teacher prior to being elected and we were doing rights-respecting schools, the articles in the UNCRC and so on, I could see that children were well able to express—not only orally but through pictures and multisensory play—their knowledge of all the different articles. In one sense, it appears that they were well ahead of us adults and that the legislative process is just catching up with them.

In that spirit, then, I thank you very much for your contributions this morning. Your evidence will certainly add to our scrutiny.

I suspend the meeting very briefly to allow for a change of panels.

10:55 Meeting suspended.  

11:00 On resuming—  

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (Incorporation) (Scotland) Bill: Reconsideration Stage

Meeting date: 31 October 2023

Kaukab Stewart

I bring in Fulton MacGregor, who is online.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (Incorporation) (Scotland) Bill: Reconsideration Stage

Meeting date: 31 October 2023

Kaukab Stewart

Thank you for that. I will bring in my colleague Paul O’Kane.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (Incorporation) (Scotland) Bill: Reconsideration Stage

Meeting date: 31 October 2023

Kaukab Stewart

Does Fulton MacGregor have any supplementary questions, or is he satisfied with those answers? I see a thumbs up.

Before we close, I point out that this will be the main evidence-taking session on this subject. We had the earlier panel, and we will also be hearing from the cabinet secretary. Do you think that that represents sufficient scrutiny of the amendments? If not, what advice would you give us and what thoughts would you share with us in that respect? Should we hear from any other witnesses? Any comments on that would be really helpful to the committee.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (Incorporation) (Scotland) Bill: Reconsideration Stage

Meeting date: 31 October 2023

Kaukab Stewart

That might be a good question for Fiona Menzies to come in on.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (Incorporation) (Scotland) Bill: Reconsideration Stage

Meeting date: 31 October 2023

Kaukab Stewart

The Scottish Government has committed to a three-year implementation plan. Is that reasonable and realistic, bearing in mind what you have just said about the need to get things right from the beginning to avoid litigation?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (Incorporation) (Scotland) Bill: Reconsideration Stage

Meeting date: 31 October 2023

Kaukab Stewart

Thank you very much.

Andrew Tickell, let us come back to your opening statement. The committee welcomes your perspective on the bill. It is our job to scrutinise it in the widest possible sense, so we are on the same page.

What is your view of the Scottish Government’s approach to responding to the Supreme Court judgment and its proposed amendments? The general view of the previous panel of witnesses was that there is no alternative. Do you have a perspective on that?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (Incorporation) (Scotland) Bill: Reconsideration Stage

Meeting date: 31 October 2023

Kaukab Stewart

The Scottish Government’s proposals.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (Incorporation) (Scotland) Bill: Reconsideration Stage

Meeting date: 31 October 2023

Kaukab Stewart

I get that, but there is a legitimate criticism that people are happy to say what they want but will not say by when they want it. This is an opportunity to hear your views, so I will push you on that. You might not want the timescale to be as narrow as six months, but that is what is in front of us. Have a go at giving us a timescale.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (Incorporation) (Scotland) Bill: Reconsideration Stage

Meeting date: 31 October 2023

Kaukab Stewart

On that note, I thank all the witnesses for appearing.

That concludes the formal part of our business, and I wish everyone well for the rest of their day.

11:57 Meeting continued in private until 12:16.