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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 21 April 2025
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Displaying 810 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Kaukab Stewart

I just indicated to Maggie Chapman that I wanted to come in on the complaints issue as well, to get a bit more information.

We heard evidence from the SL—I can never remember initials and I do not think that they are a good thing, as they exclude people—from the SLCC regarding the powers that it has. On the one hand it welcomed the changes, but it also argued for more powers. What consideration was given to giving the SLCC more powers?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Kaukab Stewart

Okay. Leanna, did you want to come in?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

United Kingdom Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Kaukab Stewart

We agree. Thank you. We will write to the Scottish Government to that effect.

That concludes consideration of the UK statutory instrument. I thank the minister and her officials for their attendance. We will now suspend briefly to allow a changeover of supporting officials for our next agenda item. Thank you.

09:52 Meeting suspended.  

09:53 On resuming—  

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Kaukab Stewart

Our second agenda item is our final evidence session on the Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill.

I again welcome to the meeting Siobhian Brown, the Minister for Victims and Community Safety. I also welcome her supporting officials from the Scottish Government: Jamie Wilhelm is legal services regulation reform manager in the justice directorate, and Leanna MacLarty is a solicitor in the legal directorate. Thank you for joining us this morning. I refer members to papers 2 and 3. I invite the minister to make a brief opening statement.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

United Kingdom Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Kaukab Stewart

Good morning and welcome to the 26th meeting of 2023 of the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee. We have received no apologies this morning.

Our first agenda item is consideration of a type 1 consent notification for the Civil Jurisdiction and Judgments (Saving Provision) Regulations 2023. This is a proposed United Kingdom statutory instrument on which the UK Government is seeking the Scottish Government’s consent to legislate in an area of devolved competence. On 9 November 2023, the Minister for Victims and Community Safety notified the committee of the UK SI. The committee’s role is to decide whether it agrees with the Scottish Government’s proposal to consent to the UK Government in the manner that it has indicated.

I welcome to the meeting Siobhian Brown, who is the Minister for Victims and Community Safety, and her supporting officials. Simon Stockwell is head of family law policy and Stephanie Smith is a senior policy adviser on courts and tribunals. Both are from the Scottish Government’s justice directorate. Good morning and thank you for joining us.

I refer members to paper 1 and I invite the minister to make a brief opening statement.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Kaukab Stewart

Okay. That is brilliant. I just wanted to check that and push as far as I could to get that commitment.

I have a final question, to which a yes or no answer will be fine. Maggie Chapman made this point but, for absolute clarity, is it the case that it is not possible for us to get sight of the amendments ahead of stage 2 because that simply does not happen?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Kaukab Stewart

I understand what you are saying about removing the Scottish ministers’ role, which you have said you will do. We have heard evidence about the differences between the positions in England and in Scotland. I understand that the Legal Services Board in England is accountable to the United Kingdom Lord Chancellor, who is also the Secretary of State for Justice, which is a political role. Will you confirm that such an arrangement will not be replicated in Scotland?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Kaukab Stewart

Some reassurance has been taken from your intention to lodge amendments to remove that role, but concern has been expressed that dealing with the issue is not going to be as easy as that, because removing that provision will extensively affect other parts of the bill. Will you reassure the committee on that?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Kaukab Stewart

Thank you. I will kick us off.

You will have seen the evidence that we have taken from a wide range of stakeholders, including the senators of the College of Justice, who were here last week. I would like a response from you about the issues that were raised by witnesses regarding the powers that the bill will give to the Scottish ministers that might threaten the independence of the legal profession and the judiciary. For instance, I am sure that you will have seen Lady Dorrian having been extensively quoted as saying that she felt that the provisions were “constitutionally inept”. What is your response to that?

10:00  

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

United Kingdom Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Kaukab Stewart

Thank you, minister. Do members have any questions?