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Yes. I have heard a huge amount of evidence about how well trained they are, how controlled they are, how they do not form packs and how they do not chase. Alex Hogg talked about how soft mouthed they are, and I have my own Labrador who is very soft mouthed.

In response to Beatrice Wishart, I set out the fact that the investigative powers of the police are not changed by the bill. They are as they currently stand within pieces of legislation such as those around the regulation of firearms. I am not going to deliberate on how Police Scotland does its job.

Again, that would be done in accordance with existing legislation that regulates the use and the removal of firearms in certain circumstances. This bill makes no difference to that.

Yes, and I accept that that is already the case. A lot of that is underpinned by the strict regulation of firearms, for example. There is a relationship between the police and those whom they know have firearms and undertake shooting activity in their areas.

I am not going to pretend that Police Scotland has said that everything is cut and dried and straightforward. Specifically, I know that Mr Telford raised some issues about the two-dog limit, which Alasdair Allan raised. However, there will always be challenges with evidence in a rural setting, because of its very nature. The same applies to gathering evidence in a domestic setting: that is not easily corroborated, and things happen out of view. However, I was very pleased with the explanation that came forward from DS Telford about what the police would consider in order to build the picture: the breed of dog; the distance between the dogs; what reasonable steps had been taken to separate any dogs that had joined together; consultations with witnesses; discussions with experts; the seizure of phones; and common sense, which you mentioned.

Yes, it makes sense.

Obviously, there are different degrees of concern about the different activities, for a range of reasons, including the ways that dogs are trained, what they are trained to do, how well controlled they are and what the oversight is like for each type of hunting.

However, my point is that I am not differentiating between the types of hunting. To do so just creates uncertainty. Rather than treat them differently, I want a consistent approach that is ultimately about regulating the use of dogs in the course of hunting in the Scottish countryside—not regardless of how they are used, but as a consistent thread through the bill, so that it applies to all dogs that are used in the course of hunting rather than in different types of hunting. Breaking that down would be fraught with opportunities for loopholes.

In those circumstances, that would be part of the minimal adaptation that would be required.

Absolutely, and I come back to the point that was made by Lord Bonomy, who is an expert in the problems of the former bill. His view was that this bill was “well-crafted” and made things “simpler” and “clearer”.

Yes, I am. I am just leafing through my notes, because I had pulled out that exact part of the bill.

As we know, the bill has the two-dog limit and, in each of the exceptions, the bill speaks to

“reasonable steps”

being

“taken to ensure that any dog involved in the activity does not join with others to form a pack of more than two dogs”.

Therefore, for the purposes of the bill, a “pack” will mean more than two dogs.

Not in my view, but, as I said, I would consider amendments ahead of stage 2.

Absolutely. Thank you for the question, Mercedes. I was interested when you mentioned that last week, at the round-table meeting. It was an interesting point for me because, in that very conducive evidence session, we managed to get clarity on what was expected during a rough shoot. I think that we managed to understand the conditions that would be expected, and we went through how some parts of the legislation would not require much change and others would require a bit of adaptation.

Despite accepting that, it all appeared to boil down to concern, especially from BASC’s point of view, about vexatious complaints. If that is a concern for the shooting industry, again, I am happy to work with its representatives on how to mitigate the risk of that. I have already said that I have not seen any evidence of that risk increasing as a result of the changes in England and Wales. I do not know how receptive the shooting industry would be to more bureaucracy, but, if its representatives come to me and say that they are very concerned about vexatious complaints, we would consider such a measure in order to mitigate that.