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Thank you for that answer. I want to revisit an issue that my colleague Miles Briggs brought up: stigma. That is a huge force that drives people away from services.

I previously worked for Scottish Women’s Aid, in support of women fleeing domestic abuse. Many faced addiction issues that were born of self-medication. They faced stigma and the fear of losing the custody of their children not only due to the abuser’s actions but due to bringing their addiction to light—that is, their letting it be known that they had such an addiction. That fear was palpable. How can we address stigma and the harm that it causes? Surely a true public health approach must not seek to retraumatise or stigmatise.

We can also think about people who are stopped for simple possession and then find themselves incarcerated for a time. Again, a true public health approach should take a different path. Does the Drug Deaths Taskforce believe that as well?

What are your views on a community justice or smart justice approach? Do you see that as being soft-touch justice or as a crucial part of how we tackle the crisis that we are facing?

Good morning, minister. Following on from my colleague Gillian Mackay’s questions, I note the argument that the high drug deaths rate in Scotland is partly a delayed health effect of circumstances in the 1980s. How should current anti-poverty policies respond to that, and do we need more of an emphasis on whole-community regeneration with a public health and wellbeing approach right in the heart of our communities to reduce stigma and ensure that everyone gets support, including those experiencing problem drug use?

Turning back to Scotland, we know that the cohort of people among whom we are seeing the most drug deaths at the moment are people of my age, who were born in the 1970s and experienced the lack of a just transition from the closure of our pits and industries. It is among those individuals that we are now seeing multiple deprivation and problematic drug use. We know that there is an issue with poly-drug use in Scotland.

In the time that I have, I want to push you again on the issue of a public health approach versus a criminal justice approach. The UK Government’s 10-year strategy seems to have a really heavy focus on a criminal justice approach, but, as someone who has supported people facing criminal justice for their problematic drug use and with all the underlying social problems that they have, I know that a criminal justice approach would lead to those people not engaging. How do we square that circle?

You mentioned Karyn McCluskey and the violence reduction unit, but I would point out that, instead of solely criminalising people, the policing involved in that initiative sought to deter violence with, for example, amnesties for knife possession. Can I push you a little bit more on that?

My questions come from the fact that I am the convener of the Social Justice and Social Security Committee and a former Women’s Aid worker and homelessness worker who spent a lot of time supporting people—[Inaudible.]—drug misuse.

My first question is around poverty, which you were just speaking about. We know that there are very strong links between poverty, deprivation, adverse childhood experiences, trauma and drug deaths, especially here in Scotland. We know that it is a very complex and multifaceted issue to address. Would you agree with the opinion that Scotland’s higher rate of drug deaths reflects historical patterns resulting from economic policies of the 1980s, which we can also see in the north-east of England? Do you have views on which particular anti-poverty programmes, such as the Scottish Government’s new child payment, will have the greatest impact on reducing drug harms?

I do not think that anybody is saying that that is a bad thing. We would all recognise that a basket of measures is needed.

Thank you, minister. I can see from the chat that Evelyn Tweed wants to come in. Is it on that point?

Thank you for that opening statement, minister. I know that my fellow committee members are passionate about this subject and they have many questions to put to you. Our questions are grouped around themes: theme 1 is on the changes to eligibility criteria and independent review; theme 2 is about the transfer from PIP and the disability living allowance to ADP; theme 3 is on moving from the child to the adult disability payment; theme 4 is about gathering evidence and consultations; theme 5 is about financial impacts; and theme 6 is about monitoring and evaluation. Marie McNair will ask the first question.

We will now move on to item 5, on the motion for the information-sharing regulations, as already discussed. I invite the minister to move motion S6M-02603.

Motion moved,

That the Social Justice and Social Security Committee recommends that the Social Security Information-sharing (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 2022 [draft] be approved.—[Ben Macpherson]

Motion agreed to.

I again invite the committee to agree that the clerks and I will include consideration of the instrument in a short, factual report. Are we agreed?

Members indicated agreement.