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That is an interesting point. I saw a lot of “Aha!” moments and nodding heads from colleagues around the table. Pam, do you have more questions?

Sorry—my screen did not refresh for some reason. I have just had it refreshed, and I can see that Alan McIntosh wants to come in.

Thank you very much, everybody, for helping to set the scene. We all recognise the resilience issue. The level of income of people who are on the margins means that there is no space: they have no resilience left. When we think about debt solutions, it is difficult to find out that there is no disposable income for people. Even if they end up in bankruptcy, if they are in that situation due to the cost of essentials, it will just happen again straight afterwards. The committee is alive to that.

We move on to questions from members. Our first theme is the delivery of money advice services.

Jim McPake also wants to come in.

Thank you, Charlene. I turn to Jim McPake for his perspective on that from within a local authority.

Welcome back, everyone. I thank members for getting back in time.

I welcome our second panel to the meeting. Lawrie Morgan-Klein is public affairs officer at StepChange; Heather O’Rourke is digital transformation lead at Money Advice Scotland; David McNeill is director of development at the Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations; Conor Forbes is head of business development and policy at Advice Direct Scotland; and Susie Fitton is policy manager at Inclusion Scotland.

In this session, we will primarily focus on digital inclusion or exclusion. I recognise that, after hearing some of the evidence, panel members might want to make contributions that go beyond digital inclusion. We have around an hour for this session.

I will kick off the questions. I will go around the screen in the order in which I see people, and I will start with Lawrie Morgan-Klein. What are the key factors and drivers behind digital exclusion?

Thanks very much for that, Heather. It is always good for us to be reminded about the fact that advice agencies themselves are sometimes digitally excluded.

Thank you very much, Susie. That explains clearly how an organisation such as GDA is really well placed to deliver that inclusion work, using the connecting Scotland funding that is available.

I move to questions from Jeremy Balfour.

I can see from the chat that Lawrie Morgan-Klein wants to come back in. Could you make it brief, please, because Pam Duncan-Glancy has some more questions to ask?

I am conscious of the time, and I know that Heather O’Rourke wants to come back in. I will give her the opportunity to make the point that she wants to make before I close the session.