Seòmar agus comataidhean

Thank you for that.

Finally, minister, in the letter to the committee, you outline how the system is created with fairness baked into it, as far as possible, to allow people access. I take on board Ms Chapman’s comments about access to legal aid, and you have set out the impact on the court service if the instruments are annulled, but could we look beyond that, at the associated tribunals and chambers, where there are generally no fees for the public to attend? What impact would annulment have on those settings, given that we are looking for people to have access to justice when it comes to housing, and to the Mental Health Tribunal for Scotland, for example? What could the consequences be for people?

I will briefly follow up Professor Kaiser’s point about the engaged and knowledgeable fisheries sector that exists in the States. I want to come back to Elaine Whyte and ask her to touch on engagement among her association’s membership. We have been driving a huge amount of data gathering for a long time, and we are actively considering how we manage our stocks of cod in the Clyde. How do we use our existing structures, such as the groups that have been set up, to re-engage with those fishers, who could potentially be the ones who help us to collect temperatures and other data and to feed those into the science? It is easy for them to become disengaged and to become one of the individuals that Alastair Hamilton was talking about, who are no longer—or never have been—interested in the issue. How do we address that?

I have tried to reformulate my questions in my head, because a lot of them have been answered, as is always the case in round-table discussions. There is such rich, in-depth discussion going on round the table.

It is absolutely right that we are looking at the topic in the space of collaboration and co-management. Indeed, the draft “Joint Fisheries Statement” said:

“Our future vision is that industry should take a greater, shared responsibility for sustainably managing fisheries, while making a greater contribution towards the costs. This can include, for example, work to develop new management practices and contributing to fisheries science, being more actively engaged in fisheries management decisions, and co-designing future policy.”

We have just heard about joint endeavour. If we get to a space where we are doing things with people and not doing things to them, we will take all the communities with us. We have just discussed the FMAC, the regional groups and the regional marine planning partnerships. I had some questions about their effectiveness and whether the model is the right one and the one that we should be using. We have already strayed into some of that, but does anybody want to put a little more meat on the bones of that? I am not looking to hear what the future model should be; my question is whether we are, right now, realising the intention that was set out when the local partnerships were set up to feed into the wider system. What could change now, and rapidly, while we are looking forward?

I do not know who wants to answer that first. I would like to hear the views of Elaine Whyte from the Clyde Fishermen’s Association, and also the views of Alastair Hamilton, because he sits on one of the groups and is in charge of leading that. I will then open it up more widely.

You just answered my next two questions, which were about OURO. I wanted to understand how it works in practice—how it is financed by the industry and its being compulsory for farmers to be members of it.

This my final question. Is any of the ring-fenced sanctions money going where it is supposed to go, which is into conservation?

We can see from the report that, where there is introgression, it is concentrated around where aquaculture is happening as opposed to the migration of smolts into some of the rivers, which was one major concern. Some fears may therefore be allayed, but there absolutely still is evidence of genetic introgression.

Good morning. You have just painted a picture of how varied the reasons are for the possible decline in wild salmon populations. The picture is very complex. I am interested in the fact that the working group report called for the expediting of the Marine Scotland research to determine a baseline for current levels of genetic introgression—because we did not have an understanding of what the actual picture was across the country. In Ayrshire, I see the work that my father does, as a volunteer in the Ayrshire Rivers Trust, to look at the River Irvine—which flows in front of my house—to understand why the levels of wild salmon are decreasing so rapidly. Now that that report has been published, what does it reveal about the impact of interbreeding between farmed and wild salmon?

I have found everything that you have said to be quite fascinating. It has answered some of the questions that we have been asking all along.

Following the questions about escapes, I have a couple of questions about sanctions. Notwithstanding the desire to have 100 per cent containment, the Rural Economy and Connectivity Committee’s report said that there are

“strict penalties ... in place in Norway ... and recommends that appropriate sanctions should be developed and introduced in Scotland.”

Do you consider the current sanctions on escapes to be appropriate, or should we have stricter measures in place?

Is further research needed on introgression?

Good morning, Dr Wells. The REC Committee’s report noted scientific uncertainties regarding the impact of farmed salmon on wild salmon populations. We have heard a bit about that this morning. In every evidence session, we have asked about the uncertainties, because we know that the issue of what is impacting so greatly on wild salmon is a complex picture. Has scientific understanding improved at all since the REC Committee’s report came out?

Is the modelling iterative? If evidence is presented from the other organisations concerned, such as the fish health inspectorate, that you need to look at again, focusing your attentions on another zone, will that happen?