Seòmar agus comataidhean

Professor Werritty, coming back to the point that you made, the discussion has focused very narrowly on licensing grouse moors, and clearly your report goes much wider than that. I think that you considered at some point the power to impose fines on grouse moor managers in the same way as the Scottish Environment Protection Agency would have the ability to impose fines. Was that in addition to licensing or was it a separate thing? Are they two different things, or did you think that both of them would work together?

You have definitely added more questions than answers, that is for sure.

I am conscious that that question has been answered by a gamekeeper and by somebody who represents Scottish Land & Estates and I want to get a balanced understanding. Libby Anderson, Mike Flynn and Liz McLachlan—do you feel there is a need for additional regulation of setting traps?

To clarify, you are saying that the use of a break-back trap would take much longer than if you set up a barrier with a glue trap and a rat comes over the top of it. However, you more or less know the behaviour of a rat. I get that there will be some resistance to it, but is there not a method that you can use with a break-back trap that will catch the rat? I am trying to think of the behaviour of the rat and why it is coming out in the first place. It will come out for a particular reason, and not because you drive it out. Therefore, if it will be done quickly, somebody has to be on site to alleviate the problems that Libby Anderson has talked about. If you were using break-back traps, would you not just use more of them and make sure that they were baited appropriately?

I have a couple of questions. Out of curiosity, what is a glue trap and how does it work? It sounds ridiculously simple, but what is it and how does it work?

Libby Anderson said that, in New Zealand, the level has dwindled down to zero. How has New Zealand managed to go from using glue traps to not using them?

Professor Reid, I want to come back to what you said about licensing and the figure for peat depth, whether it be 30cm, 40cm, 50cm or whatever. Among the current weaknesses of the muirburn code are that few of its provisions incur penalties and there is no robust system of monitoring and compliance. Given that we are now about to put something else in place, does the bill provide solutions to the issue of compliance? Are there robust enough penalties to ensure that that happens?

I am content.

I am feeling a bit of déjà vu; we have been here before in relation to hunting with dogs. What I am taking from this is that the working relationship between landowners, keepers and NatureScot is paramount so that there is proper understanding. You all sit here and agree with the need for the bill, so I do not understand why there is such concern that a gamekeeper might be prosecuted by virtue of a vexatious allegation when you have a working relationship with the licensing authority.

Professor Newton, I will come back to you. Something that struck me when you were talking about predator control and the effect that that will have on particular species of amber/red-list ground nesters, are you saying that the management on a grouse moor is helping to sustain those red-list type birds such as golden plover, redshank and snipe? Are they in better health on grouse moors than they are on unmanaged places?