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I was not even sitting in the Parliament in 2019, so I cannot answer for the decision-making process at the time, but I trust the parliamentary procedure, and I trust that the people who look at regulations or acts as they are going forward do their due diligence. Therefore, we are where we are.

As for whether we should continue with this, we face a stark choice—either we do not continue with it or we do. If we do continue with the regulations, franchising will happen more quickly. If we do not continue with them, we will have to change primary legislation, which, as you know, is not the simplest thing to do and will require a great deal of time and energy.

I am comfortable that it would be the traffic commissioner for Scotland, on the basis that we will be allowed to create a memorandum of understanding and guidance.

I remember the second part of your question now. The Secretary of State for Transport appoints the traffic commissioner for Scotland based on the fact that there are both devolved and reserved matters in traffic legislation in Scotland. I voted to come out of the UK in 2014. The result of staying in the UK is that, in 2024, we still have tie-ups with another Parliament. Therefore, we live within the bounds of what we voted for in 2014.

The proposal is not about taking powers away from the Scottish Government or from the Scottish Parliament. This is about the reality of the position that we are in: the traffic commissioner looks at reserved and devolved matters, so it is the UK Government’s right to say that the traffic commissioner for Scotland will be appointed by the secretary of state. One of my officials sits on the panel that will go through the process of employing someone in that role. Ultimately, it is a UK Government decision, because we voted to stay in the UK in 2014.

Yes—that is in primary legislation.

We will have a memorandum of understanding, and the guidance is under development. I suspect that somebody will ask whether franchising could go ahead whether or not the regulations are annulled. It could, and the traffic commissioner would still establish a panel but, without the regulations, there would be no conversation with officials or the Scottish Government about what the panel would look like, what its make-up would be or what its parameters were. The guidance that is under development will be part of the legislation, which will allow us to have full input into what the commissioner will do when they set up a panel.

My understanding is that, in 2019, we wanted to ensure that there was no political interference in something that is so big and so important and that it would be done independently. The process has to be gone through. It is not that simple to cut the corners. We can put it into the memorandum of understanding that the guidance that is under development will provide the parameters that the traffic commissioner will work to. If the regulations were annulled and if we continued with franchising, the traffic commissioner would make the decisions and we would have no input whatsoever.

We could revisit the act if people wanted us to do that, but we would have to forget about franchising between now and 2026, because we would have to go back to stage 1.

Okay. I will clarify one point. Let me be absolutely clear that I said that I will come back to the committee with the guidance as we develop it if the motion to annul is not passed.

You asked about—I am trying to think carefully about the words that I use here—the integrity of the commissioner and their ability to make that decision independently. That goes to the heart of whether we trust people whom we give jobs to. We need to bear in mind that it will not be the Scottish Government who appoints a traffic commissioner but the Secretary of State for Transport. We might have someone sitting on the panel who will be part of that process, but the process of deciphering who the traffic commissioner will be is up to the secretary of state. We then have to accept the fact that that decision is made and that that is the traffic commissioner with whom we will work.

I will make one final point. Monica Lennon talked about there being slight differences between the models. They were not identical at all. The system that did not pass in England looked only at the financial model. The model that we are looking at goes much wider than that.

I will wind up by saying that I would very much like the committee to rethink, given some of the things that we have said. Some members have said that they are minded to vote in favour of a motion to annul. The regulations will give us the certainty to continue with the work that we have already been doing for the past number of years.

We have had the debate, so I will leave it at that.

I will defer to the convener.

The traffic commissioner would have the authority to decide all the parameters for the panel. The panel will still be established if we continue on the same route.

That approach would allow the process to continue just now to allow anyone who is looking at franchising to work on the basis that we are where we are and that we are moving in the direction that we are moving in. However, I am very aware of the concerns that have been raised by committee members. I have read the evidence, so I am very aware of those concerns. I cannot give any guarantees, because, ultimately, the cabinet secretary will make the decision. All that I can say is that I am now acutely aware of some of the concerns that have been raised.

Okay. It is quite clear where we are in the committee. I will make one or two observations.

Douglas Lumsden said that there will be no delays because we have the timescale. However, we have no idea whether SPT will continue with the process if it now has uncertainty about how things will go. I am not saying that there will be a delay, but there is definitely a risk of delay to the process that SPT is in. That is my first point.

Mr Lumsden also said that there will be no panel if we do not pass this legislation, but there will be a panel. The point has been made on a number of occasions that that panel will be put in place by the traffic commissioner without any scrutiny or input from the Government at any point.