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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 21 April 2025
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Displaying 2089 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Jim Fairlie

You will have to let me think about that question—it is out of left field.

The schemes that are in place now are doing the job that we are trying to get them to do. We are trying to get more people using public transport, we are trying to cut down on emission costs and we are trying to get that habit formed in the younger generation. Right now, with the schemes that we have put in place, we can see that the number of young people using public transport has increased.

I will give you some figures. More than 116 million free bus journeys have been made by under-22s in Scotland. That landmark policy is helping young people and families with children cut the costs of their everyday travel. There are now more than 700,000 cardholders. The scheme is working: it is getting people on buses and it is saving them money. The Child Poverty Action Group has reported that free bus travel can save

“a total of £3,000 in the lifetime of a child in Scotland”.

It touches on poverty, it touches on emissions and it touches on the desire to get people using public transport. For all those reasons, the schemes that we currently have seem to be working. If you want to come up with a better scheme to use that quantum of money, I will be interested to look at it.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Jim Fairlie

The fair fares review is looking into all the systems and agreements that we have in place; when it reports, we will have another discussion.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Jim Fairlie

Yes, I can. That rate was based on the modelling and the fact that we did not use all the funding that was made available for the scheme last year. The model has been set in such a way that the predicted usage reflects the usage in years gone by, so the cut is in line with anticipated use.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Jim Fairlie

The cap is based on the predictions of what the usage will be. The modelling is pretty good, because it has been done since 2010. As a result of that, we have a pretty reasonable idea of the expected requirement for this year.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Jim Fairlie

The use will be whatever has been set out in the modelling.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Jim Fairlie

Not at the moment, no.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Jim Fairlie

If we can encourage more people to use the bus, that is exactly what we will try to do, but the current funding model is based on the number that we think will do so. If that increases in years to come, I am sure that we will be able to look at that, but, given the budget constraints that we face right now and the fact that we have a better idea about the older persons scheme than we do about the younger persons scheme, that is why the cap was set.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Jim Fairlie

That is exactly it—the cap is there to protect public funding. Before Covid, the reimbursement rate for the older persons scheme was set by using an economic model that was agreed with the CPT, which is relatively happy with where we are at the moment. No one likes to have their budget capped or to lose money—I absolutely accept that—but we are in incredibly difficult financial straits at the moment. The Government has taken the right approach in ensuring that the cap will protect funds, on the basis of the modelling that has been done.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Jim Fairlie

If we meet the limits on the capped amount, and if monitoring in-year suggests that the claims are likely to exceed the cap, claims for the latter part of the year are paid at a lower rate than is set out in the legislation, so as to keep the total payments under the scheme within the statutory cap. If this was the case, Transport Scotland would write to operators as soon as possible so that they would know the indication for the year to come.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Jim Fairlie

No, I cannot reassure you that there will be more funding, because there will not be. The funding will be split; the cap is set as what the cap is. If we get to a position where the cap is reached, Transport Scotland will communicate with the bus operators. However, I emphasise that the modelling has been done on the basis of known figures that cover a long period of time. Currently, the figure for patronage is sitting at 80 per cent of the figure prior to Covid, and there is no indication that it will increase to the level at which we will have to do anything with the budget cap.