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We can look at that, too, but at the moment we are talking about the track in Scotland.

No, because we do not know that what is happening at Thornton is on the same scale as what you are talking about at other GBGB tracks. Removing a licence from a track would be unfair to the people involved unless we go through the process and there are specific reasons to say that that licence is not valid.

I come back to the point about inherent risk. There is risk in everything. You cannot take away risk. I could walk out in front of a bus and get killed—that is part of the risk that I take when I cross a road. These dogs love running. They are pursuit dogs. They absolutely love what they are doing, the same as any working sheepdog or working Labrador loves what they do. There is inherent risk in everything that they do, just as there is risk in the things that we do. There is an issue about trying to take away all risk. As long as these dogs have been properly cared for, well looked after, nurtured and are enjoying what they are doing, that is fine. Footballers play football every week and risk breaking their legs. There is an inherent risk in everything that we take part in.

Again, having a vet on site would be part of any licensing scheme. I am not aware of the technical details of what you are suggesting, so I will ask Andrew Voas to confirm whether that can be done at the track.

Yes, I can.

Has poorer outcomes than other dogs?

I cannot give an answer to that question. I genuinely cannot remember having that part of the conversation.

Yes, I do.

When I was a member of this committee, we talked about the potential for straight tracks and all the rest of it. As far as I am aware, there is no desire to run straight tracks. I think that in one of the evidence sessions, it was stated that that would not stop the potential risk of injury. We talked about working with double lures—I asked about that myself at one point—to look at different ways of mitigating risk.

The point is that you cannot mitigate risk completely; it is about mitigating the risk of potential injuries. The convener has worked on farms. I have had working sheepdogs my entire life. There is inherent risk in every activity that we take part in, whether that is agility training, flyball, terrier racing or pigeon racing. Potentially, there is inherent risk in working with animals at any stage.

I am not sure where you got the figures from to state that lots of dogs from Scotland are being raced in England. I do not know where those figures come from. Perhaps you can tell me about that.

We talked about that during our sessions. I think that the SAWC report was largely talking about dogs bred in Ireland and brought over to Scotland. I go back to the point that I made right at the start. We understand that currently the vast majority of people racing dogs in Scotland are racing dogs that are family pets. They will have two or three dogs—or maybe four or five—but they are part of the family. What is happening in the tracks down south—the intensity and the high-stakes gambling—is not the same as is happening in Scotland. Therefore, it would be disproportionate to ban what is a pastime for the vast majority of people who do it in Scotland, as opposed to the professionalism of what is happening down south. I am trying to keep those two things entirely separate because I am making a distinction between them.

I will keep referring back to when I was on this committee. I have a friend who has rescued greyhounds over a number of years and, when this was first raised, I contacted him and asked him what the reality is in Scotland. He sent me this response and if you do not mind, convener, I will read it out. These are his words not mine:

“My greyhounds were all rescues, failed racers. However, I did race them with great success and I add all were kept until the day they died and are buried here”—

the place that he lived.

“Jim, the dogs love racing. It is just the same as dogs doing agility or flyball. As usual, the fault is with owners and perversely, although the flapping owners get the worst press, they are actually not the main problem. Many of them keep their retired dogs on as pets as they have a bond with their dog. The main problem is the professionals. These are the dogs discarded as if they are of no use. Owners only turn up on race night. They just want to own a winner.”

That touches on the point that Elena Whitham made. He continued:

“They will not pay a trainer to keep what they describe as a pot-licker and trainers have a reputation to build and that can only be done with winners. These are the people who want to get rid of poor quality dogs. A big problem is with far too many dogs being bred in Ireland, poor conditions, backstreet vets, and bitches who are just money-making machines. That, mind you, goes on in this country in puppy farms of all breeds, not just greyhounds.”

That was his response to my question after we had the session in this committee.