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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 21 April 2025
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Displaying 2089 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Jim Fairlie

It is, but I go back to the point that Mr Matheson made. We have a timescale in which to get things done, so I would much prefer that we get the SSI passed now to allow us to progress the work on franchising and to ensure that we continue making progress such as we have already made.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Jim Fairlie

There might well be such a risk, but my focus right now is on where we are and how we take the proposals to the next stage in order to ensure that franchising actually has the opportunity to go ahead.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Jim Fairlie

The traffic commissioner would have the authority to decide all the parameters for the panel. The panel will still be established if we continue on the same route.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Jim Fairlie

That approach would allow the process to continue just now to allow anyone who is looking at franchising to work on the basis that we are where we are and that we are moving in the direction that we are moving in. However, I am very aware of the concerns that have been raised by committee members. I have read the evidence, so I am very aware of those concerns. I cannot give any guarantees, because, ultimately, the cabinet secretary will make the decision. All that I can say is that I am now acutely aware of some of the concerns that have been raised.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Jim Fairlie

Sitting in this room is one thing. We are on the cusp of giving local authorities or transport authorities all the powers that they need to do the thing that we want to happen. There is no guarantee that the policy will continue in the next session of Parliament, and there is no guarantee that the primary legislative process will occur. We are where we are, and I understand the committee’s concerns about the panel. I have given commitments on how we can give surety that the guidance with regard to the panel’s remit is robust and fair. However, if we stop the measure going ahead, we will potentially place a huge delay on the processes that SPT, or anyone else, wants to continue with, because they would not have certainty.

10:30  

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Jim Fairlie

I do not know whether it is appropriate for me to check the dates or ask Bridget Bryden to take part.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Jim Fairlie

You are asking when the panel is to be created?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Jim Fairlie

Okay. I will clarify one point. Let me be absolutely clear that I said that I will come back to the committee with the guidance as we develop it if the motion to annul is not passed.

You asked about—I am trying to think carefully about the words that I use here—the integrity of the commissioner and their ability to make that decision independently. That goes to the heart of whether we trust people whom we give jobs to. We need to bear in mind that it will not be the Scottish Government who appoints a traffic commissioner but the Secretary of State for Transport. We might have someone sitting on the panel who will be part of that process, but the process of deciphering who the traffic commissioner will be is up to the secretary of state. We then have to accept the fact that that decision is made and that that is the traffic commissioner with whom we will work.

I will make one final point. Monica Lennon talked about there being slight differences between the models. They were not identical at all. The system that did not pass in England looked only at the financial model. The model that we are looking at goes much wider than that.

I will wind up by saying that I would very much like the committee to rethink, given some of the things that we have said. Some members have said that they are minded to vote in favour of a motion to annul. The regulations will give us the certainty to continue with the work that we have already been doing for the past number of years.

We have had the debate, so I will leave it at that.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Jim Fairlie

I will defer to the convener.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Jim Fairlie

Okay. It is quite clear where we are in the committee. I will make one or two observations.

Douglas Lumsden said that there will be no delays because we have the timescale. However, we have no idea whether SPT will continue with the process if it now has uncertainty about how things will go. I am not saying that there will be a delay, but there is definitely a risk of delay to the process that SPT is in. That is my first point.

Mr Lumsden also said that there will be no panel if we do not pass this legislation, but there will be a panel. The point has been made on a number of occasions that that panel will be put in place by the traffic commissioner without any scrutiny or input from the Government at any point.