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I have a brief question that I wanted to ask earlier. You are keeping the calves on the cow, so what kind of bull are you using?

Thank you.

I have loved this conversation. I have just come out of farming and into politics, but maybe I should be back out in the field.

I love the warm, fuzzy glow that we have as we talk about the good things that we could do and so on. I have been going through this process for 20 years, with people trying to link public procurement to local food networks—we coined the phrase “buy local, eat local” almost 20 years ago—and I think that it is all great. I get it. However, public procurement spend in Scotland is worth between £150 million and £180 million, half of which is spent on Scottish produce, the Scottish farm budget at the moment is about £540 million, and the Scottish Government has a fixed budget, which will be determined by what the UK agricultural policy turns out to be. By comparison, supermarket sales of food alone in this country are £12 billion, and another £10 billion is spent in the pub and restaurant sector.

I love what we are talking about—I love to see it happen. However, the reality of those figures demonstrates that we are just tinkering around the edges, so how do you see us getting this approach into the main stream? I see Michael Clarke nodding his head.

Excellent. Thank you.

I dispute your point that there has not been an uptick in the number of people, particularly in the age group that you mentioned, getting vaccinated. The Deputy First Minister told us that he cannot give a definitive answer, but you also cannot prove a negative. I argue that the scheme has had the effect that we are trying to achieve.

Leon Thompson, what is your position?

As I said, I genuinely have enormous sympathy with the sector, but I also have absolute confidence, knowing the sector as I do, that it will be able to pivot and to manage an extension of the scheme. My biggest concern is about businesses not being able to staff things properly and about the increase in VAT next year. That is a much bigger issue than the vaccination passport scheme being implemented.

Irene Petersen, how widely have you distributed your findings, and how well are they being received?

I thank the witnesses for attending. I have huge sympathy for the industry. I have worked in hospitality. I had a hospitality-style business, I have worked in the food and drink sector and I still have a lot of friends and colleagues who are in it. I have taken time to speak to a lot of them. On John Mason’s point to Gavin Stevenson—I do not mean to pick on you—they are saying, “You know what, see if we’ve got to do it, we’ll do it because we’ll stay open.” That is the biggest message that I have coming back to me.

If they have a concern, it is that they cannot get enough staff. You are saying that businesses must work at 90 per cent of capacity to break even and keep going. However, a lot of businesses are working at 70 to 75 per cent capacity already because they cannot get more staff. That is the biggest issue that I am getting back.

I will also pick up on Brian Whittle’s point about how getting on top of the situation requires a community effort. We are very fortunate in this committee because we get evidence not just from medical and epidemiological experts, but from everywhere. I get that your interest is to look after your industry, but it is still a societal problem.

We know that vaccination passports were targeted at a particular age group to bring up their vaccination numbers and that that has worked to a certain extent. Therefore, I would be comfortable to see the vaccination passport extended, because it makes the messaging a lot easier. One of the things that we have explored in committee religiously is how the messaging has gone out. If people know that, between now and Christmas, they must have a vaccination passport, they will get it. In my view, if that drives up vaccination numbers, it is worth it, because your businesses will stay open. If we do not have passports and we go into another lockdown, everything will shut. Gavin Stevenson, I am happy to argue the point with you, so please come back to me.

I confirm that I have written to the chief executive of NHS Tayside, and if her next date is cancelled, I will be on the phone.

I want to ask about at-home boosters. We are being inundated with people who cannot get out and who require a booster jag. They are coming up to seven, eight or nine months since their second jag, but there seems to be a disconnect between general practice surgeries and the healthcare system when it comes to putting the two together. We are getting cases where people are not even on the system. There is something wrong somewhere. Would it be possible to find out what the problem is, so that those elderly patients can get back out into society?

I have one brief question. Professor Petersen said businesses should allow the use of lateral flow tests or a proof of a negative test. My only concern about that is how do you stop people cheating?

Murdo Fraser spoke earlier about the evidence that we took this morning about the 20 per cent excess deaths that we have now. That is talking in a generic way about what is happening nationally but I want to talk about one person.

I have a constituent who is a number of years younger than I am. She is a mother of four. She has cancer, has had one operation and has been through chemotherapy. Last week, she was taken to Ninewells hospital and prepped for surgery. She went in the day before and at 9 o’clock the following morning, her operation was cancelled because there was no intensive care unit bed. She contacted me in some distress because she is fearful for her life. She has been told that she needs this operation and if she does not get it, she is not going to make it, so you can understand the concern of her family and everybody else. We need to sometimes remember that that is what it is about. It is about those individuals.

We were told this morning that ICU beds are blocked for longer by people who are in with Covid. We have also been told that all the people who are in ICU are people who are unjagged and have not had the vaccination. I know that we are doing all the things that we are doing, but what can we do now to get my constituent a bed?