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However, if people are found to be breaking the law, they can have vehicles taken off them. One of the concerns that has been raised is that the provision seems like a targeted attack on a particular group. That is not the case—the provision just brings any group into line with the legislation.

Duncan Orr-Ewing, you said that you do not use dogs at all. Do you believe that it is unethical to use dogs to flush foxes?

Okay. We need to protect capercaillie if we are going to save the species. By and large, they will be in wooded areas. How are you going to shoot foxes in woodland?

I might be wrong about this, but I believe that one of the main issues that a recent report about capercaillie highlighted is the need to make sure that predation is limited, and I think that foxes are cited as an example. I will check whether that is the case.

You—I apologise; I do not mean you personally. The RSPB is one of the largest landowners in the country, and it farms. When the RSPB farms, does it seek to be profitable or does it do so simply to maintain the landscape?

I am slightly confused. Duncan Orr-Ewing, you said that you have electric deterrents in certain areas. Is that done on a wide scale?

Oh yes—big black ones that you need a licence to shoot.

I can see a situation in which two dogs would be fine. For example, on the edge of an arable field with a very narrow shelter belt, two dogs go in at the bottom, and you have guns covering it, so that is fine. However, in much bigger areas, do you accept that more than two dogs would be required for environmental benefits as well as agricultural benefits, to make sure that the fox is flushed out safely? That question is for Ross.

We know that the legislation can be fairly punitive. Vehicles and so on can be removed from your possession if it is proven that you have broken the law. The bill includes a provision to have a horse or horses removed from a convicted person’s possession. What are your views on that? Ian Duncan Miller, you will not have an issue with that, so I will ask Jake Swindells.

That brings me to another point. The issue of blanket netting has been raised with me. If you are blanket netting, you will catch the rabbits, but—exactly as you said—you could have rabbits in a net for 10 or 15 minutes until they are eventually caught. Is that correct?

Barrie Wade, I come back to you for a clarification.

As you all know, I have been involved in hill sheep farming for 30 years, so I know the business intimately. On the point that the convener has just made, I had a very good working relationship with NatureScot when it came to getting a licence to control ravens that were predating on our lambs.

On one of the points that Ariane Burgess made to you about dogs below ground, the only time that I have ever seen that going wrong and dogs coming out hurt has been when two dogs were down one burrow—the back dog pushes the front dog in and there is a fight. That is mishandling by a handler. If the handler is licensed, they will be careful about how they put dogs underground. The example I have just given is the only time that I have ever seen a dog getting into contact with a fox. Is that a fair assessment?