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However, from a legislative point of view, where do we draw the line? A collie crossed with a greyhound could make a good hunting dog.

We have moved forward a wee bit quicker than I was thinking we would. To take a wee step back, I will quickly ask Michael Clancy for clarification on part 1, section 1 of the bill, which says:

“A person commits an offence if ... the person hunts a wild mammal using a dog”.

From the Law Society’s point of view, is there clarity on the difference between a person who is walking a dog and a person who is using a dog? Do you have a concern about that specification?

Sorry, can I interrupt you for one wee second? I am really conscious of time; I may bring William Telford into this as well. I want this to be really quick—I am sorry.

Let us imagine that William Telford goes out and finds three guys coming out of the back of a white van with three lurchers and the guys say, “Yeah, we were just walking our dogs.” Does the court have the discretion to say, “No. We find, on the balance of probability, that you were coursing hares”? Can the law do that?

We will come on to licensing in more detail, but are you comfortable with the difference between the exception for environmental benefit and licensing for ordinary wildlife management, as the bill stands at the moment?

Okay. Thank you.

Robbie, I made a point to you earlier about the timescale for a licence. Rachael Hamilton mentioned a period of 14 days, as opposed to two years, for environmental licences—someone would have 14 days in which to deal with a fox. From the point of view of a practitioner or land manager, a 14-day timescale for trying to deal with a predatory fox is too prescriptive and too tight. They already know that the fox is coming out of the woods. Are they going to wait until it starts killing lambs? I could go through all the scenarios, but you know them all, so I do not need to translate them for you again.

How do you feel about the licence for fox control, in particular? I do not share Rachael Hamilton’s point of view that we need more guns in the countryside, because walked packs can do the job anyway. What is your view on having an extended seasonal licence or an annual licence for specific walked packs to try to control foxes in particular areas?

In the scenario that Finlay Carson has laid out, would a dog not have to chase and kill that rabbit for it to be an offence? Generally, if a Labrador or a spaniel is flushing, as soon as the bird goes up, their nose will be back on the ground. They will not necessarily chase and kill the bird. If they are flushing, will it be an offence if they do not chase the rabbit?

Thank you.

Can I suggest, just for time purposes, that this may be a question that Sara Shaw should consider?

Okay—that gives us something to think about.

I come to Robbie Kernahan. Is NatureScot content with the exception for environmental benefit, from the perspective of your wildlife management schemes? People can get a licence for up to two years for environmental benefit but, as the bill stands, they will have 14 days in which to control a fox that is killing lambs. What is your perspective on that?