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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 18 December 2025
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Displaying 2580 contributions

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Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 10 December 2025

Jim Fairlie

On your very last point, the strategic wildfire strategy that I have just talked about will do an awful lot of heavy lifting. A hell of a lot of work is going into that.

As for whether we are engaging with stakeholders, we absolutely are. I had a meeting with the Scottish Gamekeepers Association last week, when I met the young keepers. We are having extensive conversations about what is needed, what the practitioners are capable of doing, what the restrictions on them could or could not be, and how we can make the system work so that they can continue to realise the benefits of muirburn, but in a safe and practicable way. Those conversations are on-going, which is why I have delayed bringing in the licences until next year.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 10 December 2025

Jim Fairlie

Douglas Ross will shortly lay out what amendment 257 states, but my understanding is that it would take away powers from NatureScot, because he does not trust NatureScot to make an impartial and unbiased decision. Local authorities would have to consider the protected status of gulls in the same way as NatureScot would, so is he saying that local authorities should dismiss the fact of that status?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 10 December 2025

Jim Fairlie

Will the member take an intervention?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 10 December 2025

Jim Fairlie

I will be brief, convener. Rachael Hamilton talked about trust between the Scottish Government and landowners, but this is about trust between landowners, the Scottish Government, the public and everybody else, so that landowners and people who shoot the grouse have the respect that they deserve from everybody.

We should not allow a few bad eggs to bring down the entire industry. The majority of the industry will benefit from the fact that the legislation is being tightened up, and people will see a well-regulated industry that does a good job, that does fantastic stuff by bringing money and jobs into the countryside, and that they should get behind. That is the purpose of the proposal.

20:30  

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 10 December 2025

Jim Fairlie

It was a ludicrous requirement, but it was something about which I, as a minister, could speak to NatureScot and ask for more sensible discussions about what the licence is. Therefore, that is what was done.

The member will also be aware that we had discussions about the issues in the Inverness area, which Mr Ross and Mr Ewing brought to me. Ministers have the ability to speak to NatureScot to say, “This isn’t working. Can you please change it?” That is what happened in that case, and those things were done. Does the member accept that that process is happening already?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 10 December 2025

Jim Fairlie

The annual survey—sorry, I cannot go through all that again. I would need to read the whole thing out to get the clarity that I need in my own head to deliver that information to the committee.

We are not talking about doing an annual survey. We cannot do an annual survey, because wintering birds and different species are involved. We do not have the time or the resource to do an annual survey, because that would take time away from NatureScot carrying out its other functions and purposes. There is no need for an annual survey—and it is very difficult to do one—but we are working out how we can get the population data. As we get the methodology worked out, we will make sure that we have numbers that are as accurate as they can possibly be.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 10 December 2025

Jim Fairlie

I did not say that we are not doing a survey. You asked for an annual survey, so we need to work out—

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 10 December 2025

Jim Fairlie

Okay. As I set out in the strategic action plan, there is an awful lot of work going on. I am absolutely committed to making sure that NatureScot carries out its functions, as it is required to do by the Scottish Government. We expect that it will do so in a way that protects the gulls in relation to which it issues licences and, at the same time, takes account of the issues that people are raising with it. I hope that I have already demonstrated to Mr Ross that I am prepared to intervene when that is absolutely necessary. However, I do not support the amendments and I ask the committee not to support them.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 10 December 2025

Jim Fairlie

It is because nuisance and health and safety are two entirely different things.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 10 December 2025

Jim Fairlie

I also set out in the chamber that the mass reduction and removal of eggs, nests and chicks is not the appropriate way to go. We have to take a much more holistic approach to how we manage and live with gulls as we go forward. That is the position that I will take.

We will absolutely take seriously all the issues that people have raised. I take all the points that Rachael Hamilton, Tim Eagle and Douglas Ross have raised about people’s concerns. I do not diminish them in any way, shape or form, but our actions should not be taken at the expense of the status of some of the gulls, whose numbers have crashed.

I also accept that we do not have the data, which is why a gull survey is currently being advanced. A task force is scrutinising the evidence to consider how we should take the matter forward.

I want to get the committee to understand that we are not taking the matter lightly by any stretch of the imagination. However, actions should not be taken at the expense of a bird population that is in massive decline in some areas. The decline is also across species. When we talk about individual gulls, what are we talking about—is it herring gulls or others?

I will not support the amendments today—