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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 26 November 2024
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Displaying 2941 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Deaths in Prison Custody

Meeting date: 22 November 2023

Audrey Nicoll

Good morning, and welcome to the 31st meeting in 2023 of the Criminal Justice Committee. We have received no apologies this morning.

Our first agenda item is a review of the correspondence that we have received on the progress that is being made on implementing the recommendations on deaths in custody. Members will recall that we took evidence from Gill Imery to review the progress on delivering on the recommendations in the report “Independent Review of the Response to Deaths in Prison Custody”, and that we wrote to various organisations thereafter. Paper 1 sets out the details of that and the replies that we have received.

I invite members to make comments. In any case, I suggest that we send copies of the letters to Ms Imery for her information and reflection.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Interests

Meeting date: 21 November 2023

Audrey Nicoll

Thanks, convener. I have nothing to declare.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Fiscal Framework: Independent Report and Review

Meeting date: 21 November 2023

Audrey Nicoll

Thanks. What I was going to ask was in the context of the new fiscal framework. As part of parliamentary budget scrutiny, how should the new framework inform and perhaps change the way in which committees approach their budget scrutiny?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Fiscal Framework: Independent Report and Review

Meeting date: 21 November 2023

Audrey Nicoll

I have listened with great interest to the information that has been shared this morning. The cabinet secretary will know that I am convener of the Criminal Justice Committee, which has recently undertaken its pre-budget scrutiny. The evidence that we have heard during that process has reflected the significant challenges with which we are all familiar, particularly on the capital budget. That is particularly difficult for the Scottish Prison Service and the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service.

In some of the evidence that we have heard, it has been indicated that yearly increases in the budget no longer meet the needs of parts of the sector, which brings risk to it. The week before last, the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs gave evidence about the

“need, where possible, to have a longer-term spend-to-save vision”.—[Official Report, Criminal Justice Committee, 8 November 2023; c 27.]

Without hijacking the Finance and Public Administration Committee and turning it into a mini Criminal Justice Committee, in general terms, given the context of the fiscal framework review, is there any scope to start thinking about more of a spend-to-save approach? The cabinet secretary said that financial management arrangements are more sustainable on the back of the review, but the capital budget is still challenging and is not inflation proofed.

10:45  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Fiscal Framework: Independent Report and Review

Meeting date: 21 November 2023

Audrey Nicoll

In the Criminal Justice Committee’s evidence sessions, the opportunities around reform were covered, particularly in the context of the Scottish prison estate, where a big part of the capital budget supports the reform process in modernising the estate. That also applies to Police Scotland, which has an estate strategy and is looking to modernise and upgrade its estate.

That brings me on to my next question, which picks up on—

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Audrey Nicoll

Before we move on to part 2 of the bill, I have a final question that relates to the British Transport Police, which sent in a written submission. In relation to parts 1 and 2, it questioned why the BTP was not considered to be a justice agency in the same way as Police Scotland is.

You will be aware that BTP representatives were in the Parliament just the other week. They spoke about a range of things, including the BTP’s railway guardian app, which enables travellers to report crimes and offences while travelling. In conversation with me, they were keen that the app be extended to women, and felt that it was relevant to safe travel for women.

Are there difficulties in and around that? If so, is the Scottish Government looking at ways to ensure that the BTP’s status, if you like, does not hinder the objectives of the bill?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Audrey Nicoll

We will move to part 3 of the bill, which is about the proposal to extend special measures to vulnerable witnesses in civil cases.

We received evidence from Scottish Women’s Aid, Rape Crisis Scotland and Victim Support Scotland arguing that the categories of witnesses who are deemed to be vulnerable should be broadened beyond what is in the bill and that special measures should be available automatically for those witnesses. Will the cabinet secretary consider amending part 3 of the bill in recognition of that evidence?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Audrey Nicoll

For the record, I clarify that we received the letter that you sent earlier this week, which provides an update on previously passed legislation, including the Children (Scotland) Act 2020, the Vulnerable Witnesses (Criminal Evidence) (Scotland) Act 2019 and the Domestic Abuse (Protection) (Scotland) Act 2021. That correspondence is now available online.

With that, I draw the session to a close. I thank the cabinet secretary and her officials for joining us.

There will be a short suspension to allow a changeover of witnesses.

11:32 Meeting suspended.  

11:38 On resuming—  

Criminal Justice Committee

Policing and Mental Health

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Audrey Nicoll

Our next agenda item is an evidence session on His Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary in Scotland’s report, “Policing Mental Health in Scotland—A Thematic Review”. I am pleased to welcome Craig Naylor, chief inspector with His Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary in Scotland; Mr Brian McInulty, lead inspector with HMICS; and Dr Arun Chopra, medical director at the Mental Welfare Commission for Scotland and HMICS advisory group member. A warm welcome to you all.

I refer members to papers 3 and 4. I intend to allow up to an hour for this session. I invite the chief inspector to make some opening remarks.

Criminal Justice Committee

Policing and Mental Health

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Audrey Nicoll

Dr Chopra, the Mental Welfare Commission published a report on “The role of police officers in mental health support: a review of repeated uses of police place of safety powers under the Mental Health Act”. In your key findings, you state:

“Rates of conversion from all s297 detentions to emergency or short-term detention are about 15%. This is about three times higher than the rate among those being repeatedly detained under s297 which is at 5.34%.”

I know from my past experience that recourse to a place of safety is not an uncommon course of action for police officers, so that figure of just above 5 per cent is incredible. Could you say a bit more about that particular finding?