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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 30 June 2025
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Displaying 613 contributions

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Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Meeting date: 8 December 2022

Angus Robertson

At the moment, that is a known unknown. We have been going through a phase in which we have been trying to reduce the impact of the bill. We have been seeking its withdrawal and we have been seeking to make amendments that would carve out Scotland from the legislation, and that has been happening in only the last few weeks.

If one is thinking about what is coming down the tracks towards us if the UK Government disregards the Sewel convention and goes ahead, and what the resourcing implications of that are, without doubt there will be a massive and totally unnecessary amount of extra work that will fall on officials right across the Scottish Government. Will that require additional resource as we go through the process? We will have to work that out. I know that it will be a lot more work, and I would far rather that our talented, hard-working officials across Government were able to get on with what the Government has been elected to do and what we have asked them to get on with.

It is an issue that I have raised with colleagues. I was speaking with the Welsh Counsel General about it to understand what the Welsh Government is considering, and that dialogue will continue.

Are there ways in which we can burden share? That is part of the conversation that we are trying to have with the UK Government. It is the one that is initiating this, so it would be helpful if it provided us with full disclosure of all the work that it has been doing on the proposal, and it has not done so. What it has provided is partial—it is not enough.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Meeting date: 8 December 2022

Angus Robertson

Sorry, was there was a second question?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Meeting date: 8 December 2022

Angus Robertson

Welcome to the brave new world—

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Meeting date: 8 December 2022

Angus Robertson

I completely agree with you, convener. This relates to 47 years of safeguards right across the policy areas that matter to people in every single part of Scotland—indeed, in every part of the UK. This might have seemed like a dry political process until now, when we know that it is likely to go ahead. We now know, from the evidence that you have been given, that this impacts on legislation that matters, from food safety to biosecurity to safeguards around human rights and common pay. The list is very long.

10:30  

Most of us around the table would agree that we have safeguards and among the highest standards in the world because we were a member of the European Union, and that those standards are the best in the world. The policy of this Government is to remain aligned with those safeguards and standards, and that is exactly why we will do what we have to do. It is not the route that we would have chosen to go down, but, if we have to do it, we will do what we need to do to give people in Motherwell, Wishaw and everywhere else in Scotland the confidence that, in Scotland, we want to retain the highest level of safeguards and regulation in relation to people’s personal safety, the safety of food, the provision of services, human rights and equality, pay—I will be here for the remainder of the day if I go through a full list of all the areas where European legislation has been so important. That is what we will have to do to make sure that we protect all those safeguards and regulations, and it is what we intend to do. It would not be necessary if the UK Government did not push this legislation through or at least amended it so that it would not apply in Scotland. The UK Government has chosen not to do that.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Meeting date: 8 December 2022

Angus Robertson

I may throw the microphone in a second—I am sorry, that was not a reference to ministers in other places throwing things, apparently. I will pass the microphone gently to Elliot Robertson to add anything on the specific issue of common frameworks, because that is important.

What is our understanding of how the UK Government thinks it might get through the process of dealing with legislation that is reserved, devolved and mixed? So far, I have given you evidence that interaction with UK Government ministers has been limited at best and that our officials are trying hard to work constructively with one another.

Does the UK Government see the common frameworks as a way in which it might be able to deal with some of the challenges? The answer is that it might well do. However, I observe that that is not what the common frameworks were intended for, and the issue of solving some of the problems of the process that we face next year is of an entirely different order. Quite apart from that, there is a further question. If the UK Government is doing a lot of the heavy lifting on the issue now and next month, do we really think that the common frameworks will operate within that timescale to remedy the issues that will be thrown up by the UK Government’s approach to devolved and mixed pieces of legislation?

That is a very technical and dry area, but it is really important if we want to understand who has responsibility, who will answer to Parliaments and to which Parliaments, and whether the positions of the Governments will be respected as part of the process.

Elliot, do you want to add anything more specifically on common frameworks?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Meeting date: 8 December 2022

Angus Robertson

Well, it is something that he said in evidence about things to a committee in the House of Commons. It seems to be a common approach.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Meeting date: 8 December 2022

Angus Robertson

I understand why witnesses—especially those with legal insight—would have questions about the impact of legal instruments. That is exactly the kind of thing that the Government is undertaking work on, to try to understand it. Elliot Robertson or Chris Nicholson can add any specifics in a moment if they would like to.

To the different legal witnesses that you have had, I say that these are all areas that we have to understand, and we will have to establish the best way of maintaining those safeguards right across the different range of legal instruments that retained EU law has an impact on.

Where different organisations have an understanding of areas of concern that may be overlooked, I take this opportunity to appeal to all those organisations to please highlight those areas not only to the committee but to the Government, so that we are not missing any of those points.

None of this would be necessary if the UK Government listened to the Scottish Government—and, indeed, the Scottish Parliament—and did not go forward with this proposal. It is a UK Government proposal, it is the UK Government that is ploughing on regardless, and it is the UK Government that is causing this problem. That is clear to anybody who is fair minded.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Meeting date: 8 December 2022

Angus Robertson

I know that conversations are on-going between my officials and committee clerks on the wider question of EU alignment. I would be perfectly content for my officials to talk to the clerks about how we can build in ways for you to be updated on such questions.

As I have said before, convener, I am more than happy to come back to give evidence to the committee in person. There may be ways to do some of that updating in writing, but, if you want me to come back when there is more that I can share, I am absolutely happy to do that.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Meeting date: 8 December 2022

Angus Robertson

I totally agree, Ms Boyack—yes.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Meeting date: 8 December 2022

Angus Robertson

We have not been able to quantify that yet, given that we have just gone through the phase of trying to minimise that. Now that we know what the timescales are likely to be, we will have a better understanding of what we need to do. How we can capture what that means in relation to the effort of the civil service working for the Scottish Government is another matter. However, I can say without any fear of contradiction that it will be an immense amount of time, as well as being totally unnecessary. I would far rather that the civil service was able to get on with delivering the programme for government, which is what the Scottish Government was elected to do.