Seòmar agus comataidhean

The conversation is live and on-going, and it will continue ad infinitum as long as the Government is committed to mainstreaming culture and realising across Government the full potential benefits of the culture and the arts sector.

We have not fully understood the potential of some aspects of that. As I have mentioned to people around this table in previous evidence sessions—I am sorry; I should at this point give a warm welcome to the new members of the committee, for whom this is my first evidence session—it is clear to most people that there are benefits that can accrue in health and education and perhaps in justice and other policy areas. Most people think, “Well, that might benefit patients in health settings, children or young people in education or prisoners in a justice setting.” However, it is not just those people who benefit; those who work in the health service, those who teach and those who work in our justice system benefit, too.

There are, therefore, real opportunities that we need to explore, but explore in the round. After all, if there are interventions that can help with mental health, anxiety and a range of things that impact on the workforce as well as patients, pupils and so on, there is hope to believe that they will not only be of intrinsic value to all the people who might be helped but have an impact—there is some evidence to show this—on working patterns in public services. Across Government, we need to understand that this is not only something that potentially has a cost but something that brings savings. I think that we all understand what the advantages beyond the financial ones are, but there is still a financial dimension to all this, and I look forward to working with my colleagues on helping people to understand that mainstreaming culture—or, say, introducing social prescribing—not only has a cost but brings a benefit that offsets existing outgoings.

I welcome Mr Stewart to the committee. When he met the people outside the Scottish Parliament, I am not sure whether he brought up, by way of reassurance, the avowed commitments of Creative Scotland and its reserves. I do not know whether he took the opportunity to reassure people that there would be no detriment, which was in the public realm at that stage. It is important that, when we are in receipt of the facts, we all make sure that we use them to assuage concerns that are less well-founded. I think that we have been able to do that today in relation to Creative Scotland, its funding and its use of reserves.

I totally acknowledge the wider anxieties and concerns. Mr Stewart has definitely given me food for thought about how we report on the considerable efforts of our organisations, whether it be Creative Scotland, Screen Scotland or others, which have been working tirelessly with organisations that are suffering distress. I certainly would not want any impression to be created that there is a lack of intervention, concern or impact from our agencies that are assisting. I put on record my appreciation for everybody who is involved in that.

Maybe the issue is in the nature of the matter. We are often talking about commercial organisations that have been getting into difficult situations, and not everybody wants such information to be in the public space, but I give Mr Stewart the absolute assurance that there have regularly been game-changing interventions. Scottish Government-funded public organisations are assisting the cultural sector to get through these difficult times.

Mr Stewart has mentioned the culture strategy and updated documents. Where possible, we can provide case studies about, insight into and understanding of the assistance that has been provided to help venues, organisations and individual artists to continue to work in the sector. There is a challenge—it certainly applied during Covid and it remains for some—of people making decisions about whether they want to or can remain active in the culture and creative sector. We need to do everything that we can to give people the best support to do that.

Mr Stewart definitely leaves a thought with me that I will take away. I will be happy to update the committee on how we can inform all members about the interventions that are making profound impacts. That would be beneficial. The committee has heard from Iain Munro and Isabel Davis; I have no doubt that they will be back and I am sure that they would be happy to provide you with the information that they can provide, because they are doing the heavy lifting in all this, which I am very appreciative of.

I am always open to working with authorities furth of Scotland. In the case of the world championships, British Cycling was a wider UK organisation with which we worked very closely and very well to deliver an event that involved a GB team performing at an event in Scotland that was funded through the Scottish Government. We have to work our way through. Sometimes, Scotland competes internationally as an independent country; in other cases, it competes in a wider GB or UK context. There will always be a discussion with UK authorities and UK Government partners about how we can do all of that.

However, as we debated in the chamber the other day, if funding is to be provided in areas for which devolved oversight is in this place, there is an as yet unresolved issue about the ability of parliamentarians to scrutinise how all that works. The committee will have me in—I cannot remember how many times I have given evidence and I will happily continue to do that—but it is now par for the course that UK Government ministers refuse to give evidence to this Parliament, even though they are becoming ever more involved in devolved areas, and not always in benign ways. Where we can work together, however, we will, such as through the home nations’ approach to the forthcoming footballing events. We will be working with other Governments in the UK, the Government of the Republic of Ireland and the footballing authorities. As we have shown with other events, we are more than capable of doing that and we want to do that in the future.

We will look, but I do not think that we will find it. The big difference between all the places that Mr Brown outlined and Scotland is their financial ability to raise income in a way that the Scottish Government does not have. I have heard claims in the past couple of days about how Scotland has the most powerful devolved Parliament in the world, which is frankly not true. A number of the places that Mr Brown mentioned have significant powers beyond Scotland’s in order to secure the financial means to deal with situations in a time of extremis. Scotland is extremely constrained in our budgetary powers and ability to find additional moneys in times of financial distress.

That is why, in this context, it is mission critical to understand that where we have reserves in the public purse, so to speak, if and when we reach a rainy day when we really need the funds to get ourselves through difficult times, we are able to use them. That is exactly what we have done, and we have done it in a way that will not provide detriment to, in this case, Creative Scotland. That is a good thing.

There is a wider issue going forward, and no doubt the committee will have me back for further evidence sessions about the budget in future years. I will be delighted to hear from MSPs of both governing and Opposition parties if there are serious proposals to increase, in this case, the culture budget, including from where the money will come. I have not heard that once in my time as culture secretary.

I accept that Scotland has an extremely high international reputation when it comes to culture. I would not want to contribute in any way to undermining that. The festivals this year have been extremely successful—it would not be right to create an impression that they have not been the success that they have. Only last week, I was sitting in a room with sizeable international participation, where all attendees were praising Scotland’s cultural sector—in that context, it was fine art and the National Galleries.

If we make a comparison with international funding, it is absolutely true that there is more that we could do in Scotland. That is why we are developing an international culture strategy to ensure that we are working together. That includes our regularly funded organisations, major festivals and cultural organisations with international outreach. Some of those are supported and funded by the Scottish Government; some are not. Some are funded to a greater extent; some are funded to a lesser extent.

We must ensure that we are doing everything that we can for Scotland’s international reach. I know that there is significant ambition in relation to touring; I accept that. I look forward to the continuation of the extremely successful touring by different orchestras and theatre companies. It is really important that we acknowledge the pressures that organisations, including festivals, are under—and I will meet the Edinburgh International Festival to discuss that soon—but we must not inadvertently find ourselves in a situation in which we undermine our international reputation. There is a balance to be struck.

Mr Brown is absolutely right to bring up the fact that the pressures that the Scottish Government bears in relation to its constrained income and constrained ability to do anything about it are matched by the constraints that the culture sector is feeling. There is inflation in general but, as I am sure that many will have told you, inflation is significantly higher in parts of the culture sector than in general. There is the impact of higher heating costs, and the list goes on for cultural organisations. That means that there is a double whammy: the ability of Government to do everything that it would like to do is constrained, and the culture sector—cultural organisations, venues and everything else—has a significantly constrained budget.

We have not even mentioned yet the impact that Covid has had, not only on the finances of those organisations but on societal attitudes towards going out, attending major events and so on. Those are massive shocks, which the Scottish Government fully acknowledges.

We are trying to do everything that we can to ensure that the funding is in place, given that extremity. Some of the organisations are in the public realm, although a great number are not but, where we can intervene, it is essential that we help as many organisations, venues, festivals and so on as we can to keep their heads above water and to thrive as we recover from Covid.

We also need to acknowledge that there are changes in the ways in which people are enjoying cultural offerings and differences in the ways in which events are planned, funded and undertaken, and we need to work with everybody in the culture and arts community during this period of change and uncertainty. We need to give as much assurance as we possibly can, which is why it is important that, when there is going to be no detrimental impact on our major arts funding body, because it has reserves to use, people hear that and we do not add to the wider concerns that people rightly have and that we need to deal with.

Nothing changes. There is no detriment. Creative Scotland will be introducing its multiannual payment system next year, so it would not be calling on its reserves right now within this financial year to deal with the change to the multiannual funding system, and it will receive the £6.6 million, which is an offset from lost income in relation to the National Lottery, so we are stepping in to help Creative Scotland. We are doing that to a greater extent than we were expected to, and we will be doing so again next year. However, on the key point of whether that will have an impact on Creative Scotland’s ability to introduce multiyear funding and to have the means at its disposal in the quantum that it was hoping for, it will make no difference. There will be zero detriment.

I think that cultural organisations are right to describe the pressures under which they are operating. We have heard about that in previous sessions and I have given evidence to you on that before. We are well aware of organisations such as the Filmhouse, Dance Base and the King’s theatre—which has had additional requirements—that have been flagging up that they are under significant financial pressure. We acknowledge that and that is why we have been working with Creative Scotland, which has been working—and continues to work—with organisations that are facing particular financial challenges.

I entirely acknowledge the evidence that has been given that there is a wish for culture to receive additional funding and, if I am able to secure additional funding for culture, that is exactly what I would like to happen. However, we also need to approach the funding and support of culture in other ways so, if it is possible for us to help in terms of commercial income to the cultural sector, we need to do provide that help and, if it is possible to secure additional support from philanthropy, we need to ensure that that is done, too. Right across the piece, we are focused on making absolutely sure that the Government provides the maximum funding that we are able to secure.

I refer Mr Bibby to our wider financial pressures. It is not as simple as saying that we would like more money and then, magically, more money appears. I think that he understands that, if we want more money for one area, it means that the cost needs to be borne elsewhere or, indeed, cuts need to be made elsewhere, so that is not a simple situation.

Having said that, I think that there is an understanding not just of the pressures that have been shared with the committee but of the significant benefit that is accrued—not least to the Scottish economy—from the creative sector. Again, the committee has received evidence of the financial benefits that are brought from festivals—as a good example—and the screen sector, when measured against the amount of money that is invested from the public purse. There is a really strong financial case, as well as a really strong wider societal case, because of the role that culture plays in social inclusion, health and wellbeing and all of the things that are key priorities for the Scottish Government. We need to make sure that we match the ambition of all of those things with the funding that we can secure in extremely pressed financial times. If colleagues on the committee—and, indeed, in other parties—have particular suggestions about how that can be best achieved, I would be pleased to hear them.

I have given the assurance to the Creative Scotland board. It has accepted my assurance, and it has been prepared to use the reserve. It has accepted my assurance; whether I can persuade Mr Bibby to accept it is clearly a different question.

It is absolutely my pledge that Creative Scotland will see the £6.6 million that it is now releasing from its reserves restored to it. I understand why that is important, for the reasons that I gave earlier in relation to multiyear funding. That is something that will go ahead next year.

I was not aware of £780—I am sorry, let me get the number right. I do not know whether Mr Bibby was aware of £785 million in additional pressures, because I was not. That has happened since the time that he refers to. Again, I make my point about fair mindedness and the acknowledgment that that is an additional and new pressure. Nobody had a crystal ball about the extent to which funding settlements would be pursued. I also draw colleagues’ attention to the fact that they have not all been resolved, so there is the potential for additional pressures above and beyond budgeted measures.

One has to make decisions on the basis of the facts as we find them now, towards the end of the year. Now that we are at the end of the financial year, I and my colleagues are doing everything that we can to ensure that there is not a cut to Creative Scotland’s ability to fund the regularly funded organisations. As we have heard repeatedly at this committee—as, in fact, this committee heard last week from Iain Munro himself—there will not be detriment to the regularly funded organisations through Creative Scotland’s budgetary processes. Beyond that, the uncontracted spend right across the culture sector that otherwise would have had to face massive cuts is now not doing so.