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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 22 April 2025
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Displaying 1207 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Natalie Don-Innes

As I said, it is for secure care centres to manage that. If there are concerns about children interacting with other children or young people in a negative way, that should be highlighted and managed in that estate. I am absolutely alive to the concerns that have been raised.

As I have said, work is under way on reimagining secure care, so I would wait to see the outcome of that.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Natalie Don-Innes

I said in a previous answer that I would look into the concerns of young people that Mr Rennie has raised. I have confidence in our secure care centres. I cannot comment on those cases specifically, but I will look into them.

We need to be clear that secure care is not a prison. When children are being placed in secure care centres because they have come into conflict with the law and are being deprived of their liberty, the bill seeks for that to apply to all children and young people under the age of 18 in an age and stage-appropriate way and in a therapeutic environment where they can benefit from intensive care, support and education. That is in line with trying to ensure that they do not reoffend or repeat the offences.

Although I appreciate that there are concerns about where secure centres would place those children or young people who have committed those offences, as I said, that issue has been managed for a number of years. The only thing that the bill changes is the age limit. It would be for the secure care centre to look, on a case-by-case basis, at how placement would impact on the child who has committed the offence and, equally, at how that would impact the children or young people in and around that secure care centre, and to ensure that that is managed appropriately.

That is something that will be monitored going forward—or I am happy to monitor that. I have met secure care centres in the past to understand how the process works, and I am equally happy to look into concerns that are being raised about the process at this time.

I hope that that provides some reassurance. However, as I said, I will monitor any further concerns and continue to look into them.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Natalie Don-Innes

As I said, if that is deemed appropriate for both children, that is a decision that has been made. However, I—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Natalie Don-Innes

We are considering them.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Natalie Don-Innes

We can certainly come back with a more detailed answer, if that is something that the committee would like.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Natalie Don-Innes

I have been due to meet my counterpart in the UK Government on the bill twice. The first time, the meeting had to be delayed because it fell at the same time as the stage 1 debate for the bill, which could not have been foreseen. The second time, the meeting had to be delayed because there was a reshuffle.

I was at a bilateral conference last week in relation to a different matter—early learning. However, my counterpart was a part of the delegation for that as the minister with control over early learning and childcare. Despite the fact that my meeting with him during that event was not in relation to cross-border placements, I raised the issue with him, because I have been trying to get into a meeting with the UK Government since taking post. I raised the matter with him and our officials are now working together to confirm a date when we can sit down and discuss the matter.

One of the things that I want to highlight the most is that, although cross-border placements can be essential sometimes for some children, the decisions that are being made about cross-border placements should take into account what is right for the child. Those decisions should be based only on what is right for the child.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Natalie Don-Innes

I am sorry that you are not getting that reassurance from me, but I am confident that the actions that the Government and the key organisations are taking and the work that is being done on Children’s Hearings Scotland will bolster panel members. I am confident that we will get there.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Natalie Don-Innes

Of course. I assure Ms Maguire that I take the issue with the seriousness and gravity that it requires and that I understand domestic abuse and its impact on the victim. As I have said, support for victims is absolutely key. Again, I do not know whether I can go into too much detail around what is being considered for stage 2, because that will happen at stage 2, but one aspect to which I am giving careful consideration is whether a single point of contact to help victims to navigate systems and organisations would assist matters. That would not necessarily require to be in statute. I am aware that the area has attracted a lot of committee attention and will likely continue to do so at stage 2. I am minded more to follow that through at stage 2. I am just trying to give a little reassurance that—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Natalie Don-Innes

I think that I have given an indication that there could be a shift—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Natalie Don-Innes

—because I have already said that I am considering a single point of contact, and—