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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 22 November 2024
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Displaying 960 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 February 2024

Natalie Don-Innes

Absolutely.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 February 2024

Natalie Don-Innes

Thank you for the intervention. I do not feel that it needs to be as prescriptive as that. As I have said, commencement plans will, in practical terms, rely on a positive Children’s Hearings Scotland report on the numbers. The bill would not be commenced without an assurance that the numbers are in place to cope with the situation.

On Ruth Maguire’s point about discussions, the situation is fluid, which is why those on-going discussions are important. For example, in November, Children’s Hearings Scotland planned to run a February recruitment campaign, but now it does not, because, I believe, the situation has improved. It is fluid, it is fluctuating and it needs to be considered on a continual basis, rather than setting in stone what is required for it to go ahead.

I am trying to set out why I do not feel that the amendment is necessary at this stage, and I hope that I have provided reassurances in that respect. I have said everything that I was planning to say in response to those interventions, so I ask the relevant members not to move the amendments in the group, and if they do, I ask the committee to reject them for the reasons that I have outlined.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 7 February 2024

Natalie Don-Innes

Absolutely. As I said, I will make all efforts that I can to encourage take-up of that provision.

On the issue of rurality and distance, there are a number of reasons why uptake might not be as high for our two-year-olds as it is for our three to five-year-olds. I am certainly looking to understand the reasons for that variation.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 7 February 2024

Natalie Don-Innes

In relation to our further expansion and announcements in the programme for government, the member will be aware that we have early adopter communities under way. Those communities were limited to four, but we added another two in the programme for government. Discussions and plans as to how we roll out in those areas are now under way.

Those early adopter communities are working with families to look at providing childcare from nine months right up to school age. As I said, it is about understanding what is best for families, what is best for the children and what is best for the local areas, which goes back to Willie Rennie’s point about locality and rurality. Work is under way to extend our current offer to ensure that it works for parents, children and families. I do not have to tell the member that we are operating under extremely difficult financial circumstances. We are trying to go as fast as we can, but more important is that we get it right for families. Single-parent families will obviously be a consideration in our work.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 February 2024

Natalie Don-Innes

I cannot commit to lodging an amendment, but I can commit to considering the matter further.

To follow on from that, the information-gathering and publication duty in amendment 158 could impose a disproportionate and misplaced burden on local authorities. As I said, I am happy to consider that further.

On amendments 159 to 161, as I said, in addition to their raising technical drafting issues, they could be problematic. I understand that the intention of amendment 159 is to ensure that needs assessments are undertaken for children entering secure accommodation. However, that already happens, and regular reviews are carried out, as required by the legislation.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 February 2024

Natalie Don-Innes

I feel that it is being reported, and, in fact, I have had conversations with officials this morning about whether improvements can be made in relation to that. However, the amendments that have been lodged raise a couple of problems in terms of overlap. There needs to be either more refinement of them or more work in relation to that issue.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 February 2024

Natalie Don-Innes

I will comment on the amendments in relation to Mr Kerr’s questions in just a second. I thank him for those.

I assure the committee categorically that legal advice has been sought on all the bill’s provisions and the amendments in the normal way, as is the normal bill process. As members will appreciate, the ministerial code requires that I respect the confidentiality of advice that is given, and I am not able to get into the details of that now. Mr Kerr can be assured that legal advice has been sought, and we have proceeded with that in mind.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 31 January 2024

Natalie Don-Innes

I will try to get through all Mr. Whitfield’s points. In relation to his first point about allowing people to apply for the order, as I outlined in my opening comments, that provision is extremely important to allow the police and the prosecutor to publish the information when that is required. New section 106BA(2) is left open so that others can apply—it is not restricted.

The sheriff would look at matters objectively and weigh up all the factors. Obviously, that would be done on a case-by-case basis, and it would be for the sheriff to make decisions based on each case individually. It would be for the sheriff to consider how best to consider the views of the child, depending on the circumstances of the specific case and the age of the child.

The opportunity to make representation is, again, wide, and it will be for the court to decide who has an interest, based on the specifics of the case. The court involvement should minimise any risks of the child being, or being perceived to be, coerced into consenting to a third party publishing identifiable information about the child. It is about safeguarding the child in that respect.

As I said, I am more than happy to have further discussion with Mr Whitfield about some of his more specific points, but I believe that the Government amendments provide what is required as well as the appropriate protections for children and young people. I urge Mr Whitfield to support the Government amendments.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 31 January 2024

Natalie Don-Innes

I will begin, as I did in group 13, by reiterating that I absolutely recognise the intention behind the amendments in this group, which is to reduce the trauma that is experienced by those who lose a child as a result of crime, and I understand Ms Maguire’s motivation for lodging them. I reiterate that the Government is committed to considering the issue in more detail and in discussion with those with lived experience, but—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 31 January 2024

Natalie Don-Innes

Yes.