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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 24 November 2024
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Displaying 960 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 3 May 2023

Natalie Don-Innes

Yes—if they require extra funding, that is simply the case. As I have said, that will have to be looked at once the bill has progressed.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 3 May 2023

Natalie Don-Innes

The Government will meet the funding requirements to enact the bill and the provisions in it. I cannot give any further information on that.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 3 May 2023

Natalie Don-Innes

Absolutely. I think that I have been clear throughout the committee meeting that we are listening and engaging and that we are working with the relevant stakeholders on each aspect of the bill. Obviously, the finance is a core part of that, so my answer is that we will absolutely do that.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 3 May 2023

Natalie Don-Innes

Thank you for the question. Logically, there absolutely has to be a cut-off somewhere. The bill raises the age of referral to the principal reporter to 18, but, as you mentioned, as detailed in the financial memorandum, due to the time taken for a referral to the reporter to progress matters and for the hearing to convene and put meaningful measures in place that can take effect, it is expected that the Lord Advocate, in reviewing the current guidelines, will consider whether a formalised cut-off age is needed so that an offence can still be appropriately dealt with.

We have said that someone could enter secure care up to their 19th birthday. That is to allow those children who might have received a short sentence just prior to their 18th birthday to not be put into a young offenders institution. That is a safeguard, but I am sure that you will agree that, because we are looking at the rights of a child, there has to be a cut-off somewhere. I would say that that is logical.

10:15  

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 3 May 2023

Natalie Don-Innes

I would say specifically that we will continue to monitor the situation—we will work with the secure care and local authorities; indeed, we are in discussion with them now—and that I am not shying away from it.

As I have said clearly—and the committee has heard strong evidence on this—the secure care centres have said that they are equipped to manage, and are comfortable with, the provision. The reimagining secure care project is under way and it might feed back into that.

It is not something that we are not looking at—we are working on the issue and are happy to take any feedback as we go on.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 3 May 2023

Natalie Don-Innes

Yes.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 3 May 2023

Natalie Don-Innes

I do not want to pre-empt anything, but it could very well be the case that there are more MRCs following the enactment of the bill. To date, very few MRCs have been used in practice, which is perhaps due to the consistency of the test. As a result of there having been very few MRCs to date, there have been limited opportunities to assess or evaluate their use and effectiveness. However, as has already been detailed in evidence to the committee and via the call for views, it is recognised that, in certain circumstances, MRCs can be a very effective measure to support children to remain in the community.

As you said, secure care will be a very punitive measure, so the MRCs would allow them to stay in the community while being provided with intensive support and subject to appropriate restrictions on their movements.

The MRCs provide another option prior to final placement in a secure care setting.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 3 May 2023

Natalie Don-Innes

As I said at the beginning, I do not believe that complexity—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 3 May 2023

Natalie Don-Innes

The new provisions that recognise the current criteria of injury are not necessarily a change but more a kind of redefinition. Injury always—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 3 May 2023

Natalie Don-Innes

There is. In my previous response, I advised that the scheduling of hearings for the reviews of MRCs will be prioritised, given the potential need to consider further restrictive measures.

On your point about the child, we absolutely do not want to put the onus on the child, which is why there will be on-going review. If any potential changes or further improvements can be made with regard to monitoring MRCs or evaluating their effectiveness, that is certainly something that can be taken forward. However, at the moment, because we are relying on such a limited number of MRCs, it is harder to give data on that or provide reassurance.