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I will ask officials to speak to the evidence on that. We have already talked about capacity and staffing, but I worry about confining things to just one week. Again, there could be flexibility in that, and I have discussed the matter at length with the member, but I will ask my officials whether there is evidence that proves that the bill would take away from other outdoor learning experiences.

No. I have laid out that they get a beneficial and, perhaps, different experience but, although I have the evidence to say that it is positive and impactful, I do not have the evidence to say that that is at the hand of other forms of outdoor learning. There might be children and young people who do not currently access such learning. That brings us back to the problems with data. We do not necessarily know what forms of outdoor learning all children and young people currently receive, but I know that all forms of outdoor learning are beneficial.

Are you asking whether more needs to be done regarding outdoor learning, or in connection with the specific data required for the bill?

I believe that it has been set up in relation to the updated learning for sustainability action plan. That came out in 2023 and the strategic working group follows on from that.

Good morning. I thank the committee for inviting me to give evidence on the draft Scottish statutory instrument. I hope that what I will say will be helpful to committee members.

The SSI has been made under powers in the Protection of Vulnerable Groups (Scotland) Act 2007. As you will be aware, the PVG scheme was the Scottish Government’s response to the Bichard inquiry, which was a public inquiry into how best to reduce the risks of harm to children after the horrific murder of two young girls in Soham. Recommendation 19 of the report set out the need for the registration of those working with children. That is fully embodied in the principles of the PVG scheme in Scotland, which has the unique quality of every PVG member being checked every day to ensure that they have not become unsuitable for work with children or protected adults.

The SSI sets out prohibitions and requirements that apply to organisations that employ individuals to undertake regulated roles either as paid work or in a voluntary capacity. The Disclosure (Scotland) Act 2020, which will come into force on 1 April 2025, repeals part V of the Police Act 1997 as it applies in Scotland and amends the 2007 act. The reforms require changes to the administration of the PVG scheme to enhance safeguarding in Scotland.

The 2007 act made it an offence for a barred individual to undertake or attempt to undertake regulated work, and it made it an offence for an organisation to knowingly employ a barred individual in regulated work. However, currently, an individual does not need to be a member of the PVG scheme to carry out regulated work.

One of the safeguarding reforms in the 2020 act is the introduction of mandatory PVG scheme membership for anyone who undertakes a regulated role. The mandatory PVG scheme will provide assurance that anyone who undertakes a regulated role with children or adults is suitable for that role. The mandatory scheme means that it will be an offence for an individual to carry out a regulated role while not being a member of the PVG scheme for that type of regulated role.

The SSI supports the mandatory scheme policy by prohibiting organisations from employing an individual to carry out a regulated role where the individual is not a member of the PVG scheme relating to that type of regulated role.

The SSI continues an existing prohibition to ensure that organisations continue to be prohibited from permitting individuals who are barred from regulated roles with children or adults to carry out such roles, and it requires organisations to remove an individual from a regulated role when they have been notified that that person is barred. Failure by an organisation to comply with the SSI will constitute an offence.

The offences created under the mandatory scheme will commence three months later than the majority of the provisions in the 2020 act. The short delay, which was welcomed by the committee at stage 1 of the bill, will provide a grace period for individuals who are not currently members of the scheme but who will need to become members when they are given the opportunity to apply to join from 1 April 2025.

The short grace period will also apply to the prohibition requirement in regulation 3 of the SSI to enable organisations to ensure that all relevant employees and volunteers who already carry out regulated roles for them are members of the PVG scheme and to encourage those who are not members to join, so as to avoid committing an offence.

Disclosure Scotland has already undertaken targeted engagement with relevant sectors and individual organisations that might not currently use the PVG scheme but will be required to do so, to raise their awareness of the mandatory PVG scheme and the date on which it will come into effect.

In addition, a wider public information campaign is under way to raise awareness of the impact of the implementation of the 2020 act more generally, and includes reference to the new mandatory scheme requirements and associated offences. Disclosure Scotland will continue to engage with and support the relevant sectors and organisations throughout the implementation period for the 2020 act.

I am happy to take any questions that members have on the SSI.

That is a concern. That takes me back to the issues that I mentioned around capacity and the implementation timeline. We are definitely not ready to make such provision available to all children and young people who would be eligible for it.

As Mr Adam alluded to, there are huge challenges in the sector regarding the standard of the existing infrastructure. Maintenance and retrofit are key challenges that would need to be addressed if legislation to create a statutory entitlement was in place. We would have to focus on quality assurance to ensure the safety of our children and young people. I know that SAPOE representatives have highlighted to the committee the importance of high-quality capacity and that it would be complex to ensure that good infrastructure is in place across Scotland. Again, that brings us back to some of the issues around data.

I come back to my point about the potential for further discussions with the sector and members if legislation was not an option. We could explore how targeted capital funding, modelled around Ms Smith’s public trust model, could be used to support improvements to and the maintenance of the existing capacity. I am thinking about the timeline around that.

Are you asking about learning for sustainability?

Not at the moment, but we are developing a new evaluation framework for learning for sustainability and, as I said, I would be happy to provide that to the committee to show the movement on outdoor learning.

I know that this is an objective view, but I would say that it is very clear that we have made strides with outdoor education and outdoor learning.

I accept that I would like to see improvements in the data. To a certain extent, that falls to local authorities, because it is their responsibility to collect data on the number of children who are experiencing this.

With regard to my work on the bill to date, it would be extremely useful to be able to see more figures. However, Saskia Kearns has alluded to moves that have already been made to gather more data and the improvements that could be made or the programmes that could be utilised to gather that data more efficiently.