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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 5 April 2025
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Displaying 1207 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 27 November 2024

Natalie Don-Innes

Absolutely, convener, we are. We are not miles apart. Again, though—and I know this from taking other legislation through this Parliament—Parliament likes to know how much things cost down to the pound, sometimes. I do not think that saying “It is just £5 million here or there” really stands up.

Perhaps I can highlight some of the reasons for the differences in costs. There are staff costs in secondary schools, inflation, capital costs and the issue of children with additional support needs that I have spoken about. Thinking about it, I would say that some of those costs could take the figure higher, but that is our estimate just now. Moreover, on the capital costs, I come back to the need to understand the sector’s current capacity and, indeed, what I said in response to Mr Kidd’s question about capacity in the specific centres. I have a wide range of concerns about some of the finances, and it is an issue that the committee should consider carefully.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 27 November 2024

Natalie Don-Innes

That is not why the Government is saying that it is unaffordable. The Government is concerned about the financial implications, because, as the member knows, it is in a very difficult financial position at the moment. I cannot even say whether, at the lower estimate, the bill would still be affordable. However, the real concern is our not having more exact figures and there not being more of an understanding of certain things. As you have said, some things have not even been considered, and they really need to be considered as we move forward.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 27 November 2024

Natalie Don-Innes

I do not know whether Nico McKenzie-Juetten wants to come back in but, for me, that still poses a risk. Capital funding to improve the estate is not necessarily just required in year 1. There would be requirements for funding year on year, and I am not referring only to the improvements that are needed in the estate. The public trust model poses a risk. As I say, we are not aware of any instances where that approach is taken, and I am not sure that the Parliament would be on board with that.

That is my opinion, but I do not know whether you have anything to add, Nico.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 27 November 2024

Natalie Don-Innes

The Government could certainly consider that, if it was a recommendation from the committee.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 27 November 2024

Natalie Don-Innes

Considerably well. A huge number of play parks have been invested in, and I believe that the last tranche of funding will come out in March or April. I have heard extremely positive remarks about the upgrade.

Sorry. To begin with, I thought that you were asking about school grounds.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 27 November 2024

Natalie Don-Innes

I now understand that it is about play parks. I count playgrounds as school grounds.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 27 November 2024

Natalie Don-Innes

The evidence has painted a relatively mixed picture. I heard a lot of the same concerns that the Government has about affordability and capacity. However, equally, I heard a lot of commentary on the positives of outdoor learning, specifically in relation to outdoor residential visits. I am a big supporter of outdoor learning in all its forms, and support for that has come across strongly.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 27 November 2024

Natalie Don-Innes

I will bring in officials to speak to that.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 27 November 2024

Natalie Don-Innes

Yes. That is a simple answer.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 27 November 2024

Natalie Don-Innes

I think that it would put a very narrow scope on outdoor learning, as it might lead schools or local authorities to feel that this is the sort of outdoor learning that children and young people have to receive. However, we want outdoor learning to be a day-to-day thing that children and young people experience in the classroom as well as in different environments. I have concerns that the bill’s narrow scope on outdoor learning centres pigeonholes everything into one form of outdoor learning, whereas we must ensure that we give children and young people a vast array of outdoor learning experiences on a day-to-day basis.