Seòmar agus comataidhean

Thank you very much. That concludes the public part of the meeting.

The question is, that amendment 4 be agreed to. Are we agreed?

Members: No.

There will be a division.

For

Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Con)
Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con)
Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Lab)
Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab)

Against

Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)
McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP)
Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP)

The result of the division is: For 4, Against 4, Abstentions 0.

As the result is a tie, I will need to use my casting vote. Given the minister’s assurances that he will continue to evaluate and assess by other means, I cast my vote against the amendment.

Amendment 4 disagreed to.

Amendment 5 moved—[Jeremy Balfour].

Amendment 4, in the name of Maggie Chapman, is grouped with amendments 5, 8 and 9. I invite Maggie Chapman to move or not move amendment 4.

There will be a division.

I call Evelyn Tweed, and then I think Miles Briggs has another supplementary.

I thank the minister and his supporting officials very much for their evidence—it is very much appreciated.

We will have a brief suspension to allow for a changeover of officials.

Agenda item 4 is the committee’s consideration of the Carer’s Allowance Supplement (Scotland) Bill at stage 2. The Minister for Social Security and Local Government stays with us for this item—it is a pleasure to have you again, Mr Macpherson. I also welcome Maggie Chapman, who is here to speak to her amendments.

The minister is now joined by Andrew Strong, but I remind members that, as officials cannot take part in the debate, they are not named on the record. Stephanie Virlogeux is also watching from the public gallery. I welcome them both.

Everyone should have with them a copy of the bill as introduced, the marshalled list of amendments that was published on Monday and the groupings of amendments, which set out the amendments in the order in which they will be debated.

There will be one debate on each group of amendments. I will call the member who lodged the first amendment in that group to speak to and move that amendment and to speak to all the other amendments in the group. Members who have not lodged amendments in the group but wish to speak should indicate that by catching my attention in the usual way. The debate on the group will be concluded by me inviting the member who moved the first amendment in the group to wind up. The standing orders give any Scottish minister a right to speak on any amendment. Therefore, I will invite the minister to contribute to the debate just before I call the winding-up speech.

Following the debate on each group, I will check whether the member who moved the first amendment in the group wishes to press it to a vote or to withdraw it. If they wish to press ahead, I will put the question on that amendment. If a member wishes to withdraw their amendment after it has been moved, they must seek the committee’s agreement to do so. If any committee member objects, the committee immediately moves to the vote on the amendment.

If any member does not want to move their amendment when called, they should say, “Not moved.” Please note that any other MSP may move such an amendment. If no one moves the amendment, I will immediately call the next amendment on the marshalled list.

Only committee members are allowed to vote. Voting in any division is by a show of hands. It is important that members keep their hands clearly raised until the clerk has recorded the vote.

The convener has a personal vote as a committee member and a casting vote in the event of a tie. It is entirely at my discretion as the convener how to use the casting vote. There are no agreed conventions on that point. However, if the casting vote is used, I intend to indicate the basis on which I will use it immediately before doing so.

The committee is required to indicate formally that it has considered and agreed to each section and schedule of the bill. Therefore, I will put a question on each section at the appropriate point.

If everybody is content with where we are after that brain dump—I am conscious that we had to get through that because this is the first time that we have considered stage 2—we will move to the consideration of amendments.

Section 1—Increased amount of carer’s allowance supplement in respect of the period of 1 October 2021 to 31 March 2022

Members should make interventions brief, please.